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Why I am against Hinduism - I Discussion between Periyar Ramasami and M.K. Gandhi
by Manoj Abhigyan on Tuesday, 11 October 2011 at 01:22

Periyar : Hinduism must be abolished!

MK.Gandhi : Why do you say so?

Periyar : There is no religion called 'Hinduism'.

M.K.Gandhi : But, it is there!

Periyar : It is a concoction of the brahmins. They have persuaded the people to believe that it is a religion.

M.K.Gandhi : Can't we say that all religions are what the people have imagined them to be?

Periyar : We can't say that. For all other religions there is historical evidence. Further, all of them have principles acceptable to all the followers.

M.K.Gandhi : Doesnt the Hindu religion have such principles ?

Periyar: What is there ? It was divided society into different groups like brahmins, sudras and declared that brahmins belong to a superior caste and all the others are lower caste people. This differentiation is the only achievement of this so-called religion. There is no supporting evidence for any of the claims made by the advocates of the religion.

M.K.Gandhi : O.K.! Hinduism has this principle at least!

Periyar : How is it useful to us ? By that principle brahmins alone belong to a high caste, you and I and all others are lower caste people !

M.K.Gandhi : Your statement is not correct. In Varnashrama Dharma there is no mention of higher and lower castes.

Periyar : You may be pleased to say so, but actual practice is different.

M.K.Gandhi : This can be practised.

Periyar : This cannot be practised as long as Hinuism is in vogue.

M.K.Gandhi : This ca be done only with the help of Hinduism.

Periyar : In that case, what happens to the division like brahmins and sudras made with religious support.

M.K.Gandhi : You-just now said that Hinduism has no support for class divisions.

Periyar : I say that there is no religion called Hinduism and therefore the supporting claims made in the name of religion for the division of the community into higher and lower castes, are not valid. But if we accept that there is a religion called Hinduism, then we may have to take into consideration the claims made in the name of religion.

M.K.Gandhi : We can accept the religion and we can formulate some principles to support its policies.

Periyar : That is impossible. If we accept the religion we can't change anything with which it is linked.

M.K. Gandhi : What you say may apply to other religions but not to Hinduism. After accepting this religion, you can do anything in its name. Nobody can object to your actions.

Periyar : How can you say that ? Who will permit me to do anything in the name of religion ? Should I not be able to say which principle of this religion supports my action ?

M.K.Gandhi : What you say is true. There is no religion called Hinduism. I accept that I agree with you when you say that this religion has no fixed principles. That is why I say that we may admit that we are Hindus and then we can evolve principles for the religion. At the present day, in this country, why ? in the whole world, if we wish to make the people lead disciplined lives, we can do that only with the help of the Hindu religion. Other religions cannot help us in this matter because they are historically authentic and their principles are fixed and soundly supported. If we tamper with them, the followers of those religions will punish us Christians are bound to follow Christ's words or what are presented in the Bible as Christ's views. Muslims must follow Mohammed Nabi's words as presented in the Quran. If any change is suggested, that will be considered an irreligious action. One who wishes to make any such suggestion will have to come out of that religion and speak. Otherwise, he will be severely punished. This is the nature of all true religions. But, since Hinduism is not a religion anyone can become recognised as a greatman in the name of this 'religion' and he can express his views as religious

principles. In this way, many great men have expressed many of their ideas in the name of this religion. Therefore we too can introduce into it many reforms suited to the present day society.

Periyar : Excuse me ! That is impossible.

M.K Gandhi : Why?

Periyar : The selfish gang in Hinduism will not permit it at all.

M.K.Gandhi : How do you say that ? have not all people in this religion accepted that there is no untouchability in Hinduism?

Periyar : Theoretical acceptance of any idea is one thing and following it in practice is another. Therefore it is not possible to introduce any reforms in Hinduism. Like Share

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Why I am against Hinduism - II Discussion between Periyar Ramasami and M.K. Gandhi
by Manoj Abhigyan on Tuesday, 11 October 2011 at 01:26

M.K.Gandhi : I am showing it in practice. Have you not realized how many changes have taken place during the past 4 or 5 years ?

Periyar : I do realize that changes appear to have taken place but they are not real changes. The people pretend to accept the reforms suggested by you because you are influential and because they need your good will. And you have taken their words on trust.

M.K.Gandhi : (smilingly) Who are you referring to?

Periyar: All the brahmins.

M.K.Gandhi : You mean all the brahmins ?

Periyar : Oh yes ! All the brahmins, including those who are with you.

M.K.Gandhi : In that case don't you have faith in any brahmin ?

Periyar : I am not able to have faith in anyone.

M.K.Gandhi : Don't you have faith even in Mr. Rajagopalachari ?

Peiryar : He is a good and truthful person. He is unselfish and self-sacrificing. All these good qualities come to the fore in his service to his community. But I cannot easily bring myself to entrust the welfare of my people - the non-brahmins- to him.

M.K.Gandhi : That is surprising to me. It is your view that there is not even one honest brahmin in the world ?

Periyar : Perhaps there may be a few, but I haven't come across any such person.

M.K.Gandhi : Please don't say so. I know a brahmin. Iconsider him an absolutely good brahmin, he is Gopal Krishna Gokhale.

Periyar : Oh, what a relief ! If such a great person like you have been able to find only one good brahmin, how can "sinners" like us come across any good brahmin ?

M.K.Gandhi : (laughing) Theworld will always be under the domination of the intelligentsia. The brahmins are educated and at all times they will be dominant. And there is no use of blaming them for that. Others also must come to that position.

Periyar : Hinduism is unlike other religions in one respect. In this religion all the brahmins are educated and they alone form the intelligentsia. Among the others, more than 90 percent are uneducated and gullible. In a society which follows a certain religion, if only one community can be educated and dominant, should we not consider that religion harmful to the people of other communities? That is why I say that Hinduism is a bad religion and that it should be abolished.

M.K.Gandhi : What exactly is your idea? Can I take it that you wish to abolish Hinduism and get-rid of brahmins ?

Periyar : If Hinduism, that is, the wrong kind of Hindureligion, is abolished, there won't be any brahmins. It is because we have the Hindu religion, the brahmins are there and that too all powerfully and you and I are known as Sudras.

M.K.Gandhi : It is not so. Don't the brahmins listen to my words ? Can't all of us join together at this time and acting from within the religious fold, remove all that you consider to be defects in Hinduism?

Periyar: It is my humble view that you can't do it. Even if you succeed in doing it, after you, another great man will come up, reverse all the changes you have made and leave the religion as we find it today.

M.K.Gandhi : How can he do that?

Periyar : Just now you saidthat people can be made to accept and follow whatever we say in the name of religion. Can't a great man of the future do anything in the name of religion?

M.K.Gandhi : In the future, no one can easily change, religious practices, as we intend to do now.

Periyar : You must forgive me for what I say. Having Hinduism in vogue, you cannot effect any permanent changes. Brahmins won't allow anybody to go so far. If they find that your ideas go against their interests, immediately they will begin to oppose them.' So far, no great person has made any kind of change. If any person tries to do it now, the brahmins will not allow him to have a free hand.

M.K.Gandhi : You have formed a wrong impression of the brahmins in your mind. That is uppermost in your thoughts. I don't think we have come to any agreement on anything that we have discussed so far. Still, we shall have twoor three more meetings and then decide what we can do. (So saying, while still stretched in bed, he put his hand on his head and turned it slowly in a circle.)

Note : Periyar-Gandhi Meeting in 1927, The Hindu Religion and Gandhiji and Periyar-Valluvar Publishing House, Bhavani, 1948. Like Share