Art|Basel|Miami Beach Art|Basel|Conversations Transcripts

ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream | 079 Art Basel Conversations | Thursday, December 2, 2004 The Moore Building in the Miami Design District

TRANSCRIPT | PREMIERE CONVERSATION STREAM EXPERIMENTAL ARTIST Q & A

Based on the cadavre exquise Surrealist/Dadaist storytelling game, with a collage of questions and unexpected answers

SPEAKERS | JANET CARDIFF TRISHA DONNELLY LIAM GILLICK JENNY HOLZER REM KOOLHAAS JEFF KOONS ERNESTO NETO Host and Croupier | DANIEL BIRNBAUM

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Janet Cardiff Artist; Berlin, Germany Janet Cardiff was born in Brussels, Ontario, Canada, in 1957. From 1976 she studied at Queens University (BFA) where she majored in printmaking and painting and in 1980 at the University of Alberta (MVA) where she began collaborating with George Bures Miller. Cardiff began exploring binaural audio at The Banff Center for the Arts in 1991 which led to her developing the format of the audio walks. Cardiff and Miller represented Canada at the Venice Biennale in 2001 with Paradise Institute, a multi-layered installation exploring cinematic experience through architectural and aural illusions. A major survey of their works has toured to PS1 Contemporary Art Center of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, The Muse dArt Contemporain, Montreal, and the Castello Rivoli in Turin. Cardiff has been included in exhibitions such as: Sculpture Projects, Muenster, 1997, Present Tense, Nine Artists in the Nineties, SFMOMA, NowHere, Louisiana Museum, Denmark, The Museum as Muse, MOMA, So Paulo Bienal 98, 6th International Istanbul Biennial, The Carnegie International 99/00, The Tate Modern Opening Exhibition as well as The Missing Voice commissioned by Artangel in 1999, still on view at the Whitechapel Library in London. Public Art Fund commissioned the most ambitious audio walk to date, Her Long Black Hair, in the summer of 2004 for Central Park, NYC. Her work is included in private and public collections in Canada, the United States and Europe. Cardiff has been the recipient of several awards, including the Millennium Prize, from the National Gallery of Canada, for The Forty Part Motet, the Premio Prize for the Paradise Institute at the Venice Biennale in 2001 and received a DAAD Berlin residency fellowship in 2001 to 2002. Cardiff and Miller are represented by Luhring Augustine Gallery in New York and Galerie Barbara Weiss, Berlin. [www.abbeymedia.com/Janweb] Trisha Donnelly Artist; Los Angeles, CA, USA At thirty, the Yale and UCLA educated Donnelly is one of the bright stars of the international art scene. Her works which take the form of drawings, photography, video, sound, and performance have appeared in the 2002 Venice Biennale, 2002 Prague Biennial, 2004 Biennale de Lyon, and the now-touring Baja to Vancouver: The West Coast in Contemporary Art, which stopped at the Seattle Art Museum last year (2003). She participated in numerous group exhibitions including, in 2004, 2004 Carnegie International; International Exposition of the DakArt Biennial of Contemporary African Art, curated by Hans Ulrich Obrist; Collection (or How I spent a Year), curated by Bob Nickas at PS1, The Weather, Saidye Bronfman Center for the Arts, Montreal; Comment Rester Zen, Centre Cultural Suisse, Paris, France. Previous shows include Spectacular: The Art of Action, curated by Jens Hoffmann, Museum Kunst; Young Scene, curated by Daniel Baumann, Vienna Seccession; Moving Pictures, Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, NY, traveling to Guggenheim Bilbao, Spain; I Love Dijon, curated by Eric Troncy, Le Consortium, Dijon, France; The Dedalic Convention, curated by Liam Gillick, MAK Museum, Vienna. Donnellys work is in the following permanent collections: Carnegie Museum, Pittsburgh, PA; Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, New York, NY, and Western Bridge Foundation, Seattle, WA. [www.airdeparis.com/trisha.htm] Liam Gillick Artist; London, England; New York, NY, USA Liam Gillick was born in 1964 in Aylesbury, UK. He attended Goldsmiths College in London between 1984 and 1987 and has been teaching at Columbia University in New York since 1997. Numerous solo exhibitions since 1989 include Literally, The Museum of Modern Art, New York, 2003; communes, bar and greenrooms, The Powerplant Contemporary Art Gallery, Toronto, 2003; Exterior Days, Casey Kaplan, New York, 2003; The Wood Way, Whitechapel Gallery, London, 2002. Selected group exhibitions include Singular Forms, Guggenheim Museum, 2004; 50th Venice Biennale, 2003; What If, Moderna Museet, Stockholm, 2000 and documenta X, 1997. Numerous public projects and interventions include Ft. Lauderdale Airport 2002 and the new Home Office government building in London to be completed in 2005. Since 1995 Liam Gillick has published a number of books that function in parallel to his artwork including Literally No Place (Book Works, London, 2002); Five or Six (Lukas & Sternberg, New York, 1999); Discussion Island/Big Conference Center (Kunstverein Ludwigsburg, Ludwigsburg, and Orchard Gallery, Derry, 1997) and Erasmus is Late (Book Works, London, 1995). Underground (Fragments of Future Histories), (Les maitres des formes, Brussels and les presses du reel, Dijon, 2004) has just been published and Construccin de Uno, a text addressing post-industrial developments within a revised ecological framework, will be published in early 2005. In addition, Liam Gillick has contributed to many art magazines and journals including Parkett, Frieze, Art Monthly and has a regular column for Metropolis M in Amsterdam. [www.airdeparis.com/liam.htm] Jenny Holzer Artist; Hoosick, NY, USA For more than twenty-five years, Jenny Holzer has presented her astringent ideas, arguments, and sorrows in public places and international exhibitions, including the Venice Biennale, the Reichstag, and the Guggenheim Museums in New York and Bilbao. Her medium, whether formulated as a T-shirt, as a plaque, or as an LED sign, always is writing, and the public dimension is integral to the delivery of her work. Starting in the late 1970s with the posters that Holzer pasted on buildings in New York City, and up to her recent xenon projections on landscape and architecture, her practice has rivalled ignorance and violence with humor, kindness, and moral courage. Holzer lives in Hoosick, New York. In addition to the numerous solo and group exhibitions in which her work has appeared, Holzer has created many public projects, among them a Truisms display on the Spectacolor Board in Times Square in 1982, sponsored by the Public Art Fund, and a series of public spots for MTV in 1989. She has also published several books, including A Little Knowledge (1979); Black Book (1980); Hotel (with Peter Nadin, 1980); Living (with Nadin, 1980); Eating Friends (with Nadin, 1981); Eating Through Living (with Nadin, 1981); and Truisms and Essays (1983) [http://adaweb.walkerart.org/context/artist/holzer/holzer1.htm]

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Jeff Koons Artist; New York, NY, USA Jeff Koons was born in York, Pennsylvania in 1955. He received a BFA from the Maryland Institute College of Art in Baltimore in 1976 and also attended the School of the Art Institute of Chicago on a visiting student program. Mr. Koons lives and works in New York City. Mr. Koonss work has been exhibited internationally and is in numerous public collections, including the Museum of Modern Art (New York, NY), Whitney Museum of American Art (New York, NY), Guggenheim Museum (New York, NY), The National Gallery (Washington, DC), Hirschorn Museum (Washington, DC), San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (San Francisco, CA), the Eli Broad Family Foundation (Santa Monica, CA), Tate Gallery (London, UK), Stedelijk Museum (Amsterdam, the Netherlands), Museum Ludwig (Cologne, Germany), Tokyo Metropolitan Museum (Tokyo, Japan). Mr. Koons is also known for his public sculptures, such as Puppy, a floral sculpture shown at Rockefeller Center in the Summer of 2000, Balloon Flower, installed in Potsdamer Platz in Berlin as part of Daimler Chryslers permanent collection, and Split-Rocker, a floral sculpture exhibited at the Papal Palace in Avignon, France. Mr. Koons has received many awards and honors in recognition of his cultural achievements. For educating children through the vis-ual arts, Mr. Koons received the 1999 Art Start for Children Award given by Learning Through Art / The Guggenheim Museum Childrens Program. For his cultural contribution, Mr. Koons received the BZ Cultural Award 2000 from the city of Berlin, Germany. In 2001, President Jacques Chirac of France appointed Mr. Koons to the rank of Chevalier of the French Legion of Honor for his ongoing contributions in tightening the cultural links between France and the United States. [www.art-of-this-century.com/koons.htm] Ernesto Neto Artist; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Ernesto Neto was born in 1964 in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. He studied at the Museu de Arte Moderna in Rio de Janeiro, and at the Escola de Artes Visuais do Parque Lage, 1994 to 1997. Neto began exhibiting in Brazil in 1988 and has had solo exhibitions abroad since 1995. His works have been exhibited in Basel, Helsinki, and London. At the 2001 Venice Biennale, his installations were featured in Brazils national pavilion and in the international group exhibition at the Arsenale. Ernesto Neto has thus emerged as one of Brazils leading contemporary artists. In the last decade he has built his sensual installations at numerous international festivals, galleries, and museums. Daniel Birnbaum Rector of the Stdelschule Art Academy, Director of Portikus; Frankfurt am Main, Germany Daniel Birnbaum was born in Sweden in 1963. He is Rector of the Stdelschule Art Academy and Director of Portikus, both in Frankfurt am Main. He was formerly Director of IASPIS (International Artists Studio Program in Sweden), co-curator of 50th Venice Biennale (Italian Pavilion) and is co-curator of the first Moscow Biennale (2005). He has curated various solo exhibitions, including Philippe Parreno (2002), Gilbert & George (2002) and Louise Lawler (2003). In 2002 he curated a large project on the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin with works by Thomas Bayrle and Michel Majerus. He is currently a board member of the Manifesta Foundation, Amsterdam. As an art theorist and critic, he regularly contributes to magazines such as Frieze, Parkett, and is contributing editor for Artforum. [www.portikus.de]

082 | ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream Premiere Introduction | Samuel Keller Nicola Bulgari Samuel Keller: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, as the director of Art Basel Miami Beach, its my pleasure and privilege to welcome you here to the premiere of Art Basel Conversations and the Bvlgari Art Cocktail. Tonight we want to hear the artists speak and therefore I shall only say a few words. Let me start by thanking Daniel Birnbaum and all the artists for their courage to participate in this experimental venture. Also, we thank all the other panelists of this week many of them are amongst us tonight. Furthermore, I am grateful to those who have created the program of Art Basel Conversations with me Hans Ulrich Obrist, Isabella Mora, James Rondeau, Maria Finders, and all members of that team who have helped to make this happen. Especially, I wish to thank Bvlgari for being a wonderful partner in this initiative, the collaboration stands as a model for a worldwide leading companys commitment to contemporary art. Only your involvement makes Art Basel Conversations and this evening possible. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Nicola Bulgari. Nicola Bulgari: Ladies and gentlemen, dear art lovers, Im very happy to be here tonight at the premiere of this second appointment of the Art Basel Conversations partnered with Bvlgari. I would like to thank, first of all, Sam Keller and the entire Art Basel staff for having been so supportive to us and having led our first steps into the contemporary art world. I would also like to thank Hans Ulrich Obrist, for bringing together and managing some of the most brilliant minds in the art world. Im also very grateful to all the top curators, museum directors, critics, writers, and artists of the present and past edition for contributing and creating such a high-level conversation program. I am personally very passionate about art and this is why this appointment with the most prominent event in the art scene is very special to me. Over the past months, our experience with Art Basel has strengthened our commitment to the art world and we are planning now our next steps of how to continue our work throughout our international network. We are delighted to welcome you again to the Art Basel Conversations in this beautiful setting of Art Basel Miami Beach. Enjoy the evening! Thank you. In Conversation | Janet Cardiff Trisha Donnelly Liam Gillick Jenny Holzer Jeff Koons Ernesto Neto Host and Croupier | Daniel Birnbaum Daniel Birnbaum: Thank you so much. We do not know exactly what this evening is going to be all about. We know that its not a panel discussion in the normal sense. With us, we have six great artists and we have a room full of interesting, relevant artists and curators and collectors. So, we venture forward in this experiment, something between a game show and a kind of casino situation. Its a lot about chance. I therefore do not really see myself as a moderator, more of a croupier, someone who manages chance. The evening is a little bit about this box, the box is full of questions, possible and impossible questions about art and the art world, everything you wanted to ask about art but maybe were too afraid to ask well see. Janet Cardiff, Jenny Holzer, Liam Gillick, Ernesto Neto, Trisha Donnelly, and Jeff Koons. The box with all the questions will come into action very soon, but just to get the whole thing started. Now I will read out loud the first series of questions. Weve set up a few rules since this is not a normal conversation or a panel discussion wanting to reach a final conclusion, but a game. Every person has a maximum of sixty seconds to answer the question addressed to them, so things will be fairly quick. Theres actually a clock timing the rounds, so well see if that works. But you dont have to look in the direction of the clock all the time, I will look in that direction and I will stop people, I promise you. So, I start with the first question for you, Janet. The questions may seem a little direct, or too profound or too silly, but its all about what one can do with a question like this . Janet: Who is responsible for art?

ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream | 083 Janet Cardiff: (No answer for thirty seconds. She sits and looks at audience) So, in terms of responsibility, I just created that silence, but I think you created the meaning for it. Youre sitting there thinking; Whats wrong with her? Why cant she say anything? Has she lost it all of a sudden? So, if that was a performance, then who is responsible for it? One thing that interests me about responsibility is the relationship of the viewer to the artwork and how an artwork can have much more meaning if the viewer takes the responsibility and actually invests time and energy in ways of looking at it. Okay? Daniel Birnbaum: Jenny: Should art be political? Jenny Holzer: A larger question might be: should politics be as political, rather than, say, useful or helpful? But yes, a certain amount of art should be political, think of life without Goya or Guernica or the new Eminem video. Ill yield the rest of my time to an extrovert. Is there one here? Daniel Birnbaum: Well see if we can stop that clock because I said you dont have to use your sixty seconds. Liam, concerning time: How long should an art piece last? Liam Gillick: This is a question which isnt necessarily determined by the work itself. Its a kind of an urgent question for people, but it isnt one that can be necessarily determined by the user of the work or the producer of the work. So its like one of these evil, quasi-philosophical kinds of questions which seem to undermine the historical. It seems to be a question which would undermine assumptions about the nature of art. The idea is that if we deal with the traditional structure of art, we should know how long we would have to deal with it, because it is inherently structured that way and that somehow more radical or interesting art might draw into question the amount of time were supposed to spend with it. However, this is still something thats not been resolved in any way,

084 | ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream its still something that is somehow in a gray area and the best way of talking about this may be to talk about the idea of art as something to be dealt with in real time. The question of how long we should spend with art is something that tends to be suppressed by the more conservative tendencies within art. Daniel Birnbaum: And Ernesto: Should art be global or is it always local? Ernesto Neto: Global local global local local global global local global local. I think art should be local and global.

ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream | 085 Daniel Birnbaum: Its pure chance, Im only, as and how the support structures that have existed I said, a croupier, Im the manager of chance, so around art in the last fifty years have now become I didnt think out this specific question for you. powerful enough and secure enough to extend a little further than the traditional spaces for art, Janet Cardiff: Of course, location is seriously im- without being tokenistic, simple-minded or comportant. For the walks it creates the work and am promised. I going to have to keep on talking because theres no clock? Daniel Birnbaum: So now you need to read the question. Daniel Birnbaum: No, you can liberate yourself through asking ... Liam Gillick: A question for Jeff: Is art part of a revolutionary process? Janet Cardiff: Okay, I can liberate myself Jeff Koons: I always look at art as something which Daniel Birnbaum: Actually, its over helps us survive. Thats what great art does, so I think that art always has to be challenging at the Janet Cardiff: I thought it was going on over, so edges of human knowledge. Im going to ask Everything that we know about this time that Jenny: How important is architecture? helps us survive and takes care of us is good, but we have to increase that information to be chalJenny Holzer: Architecture is important. Its al- lenging. So I think that art does have that aspect of ways good to be able to come in out of the weather challenge, being a little revolutionary. and, once youre inside, to find a space that deAt the same time, art likes to collapse all the lights the eyes. It can be pure pleasure to install art structures that it creates, to start new and bring in a great building and ghastly when you have to the most important, archetypal information into try to place your art in an overbearing and hideous its being. one. And heres affirmation for the insecure: yes, architecture is art. Daniel Birnbaum: Thank you and you have a question, one more question? Daniel Birnbaum: And you continue Jeff Koons: My questions for Ernesto I thought Jenny Holzer: Liam: Should great art be shown in about this one a lot Ernesto: Does size really matter in art? public space? Or, I guess a related question: Should only crummy art be shown in public space? Ernesto Neto: Yes, I can imagine how much you Liam Gillick: Theres an assumption in this ques- thought about it size of what? That depends on tion that only bad art gets shown in public spaces what youre talking about. But, hm, big size, small but everything is open to change in terms of the size, it depends how you do it, I think. Anyway, in Portuguese [continues in Portuguese] status and focus of art. In fact the question is about where people I still have thirty seconds. I think each art piece should focus their critical faculties. The issue is has its own size, you know, it comes with the size, not so much whether or not, historically, bad art its own relationship; the size is part of this relationhas been in public spaces but the extent to which ship, so it doesnt need to be big or small. I like the people have made the effort to concentrate and idea of the black hole, the black hole is very small think hard about why something is where it is but it has a big field. So, something like that.

Daniel Birnbaum: Trisha, I get back to you, and Daniel Birnbaum: I think that was a little bit too now we change, not the rules but the method. I will long, but it was a very good answer. read you a question, and then each person has the question to ask another, so the game will continue Liam Gillick: No, I didnt even get into my minute; in a little bit of another way. Where should art be I was in like ten seconds into my minute! experienced? Daniel Birnbaum: Okay, I just wanted to be strict Trisha Donnelly: I think its in the return. There about the regulations. Oops, were loosing time are stores in France where you can return a box and Trisha: When is art important and where? even if you didnt necessarily buy the product at that location but rather through a catalogue. It is Trisha Donnelly: Lets start with when. Its if an entire location only for returns. It is a separate you remember, when you remember, when it hap- experience from the purchase or the pick-up. So, pens and where it is situated in the construction its in the return (or in what remains) when you of the mind. So the when is the true random actually step back into and towards the moment whenever the work pops up into your mind and (position) of being the observer, of observing the where is in your mind, where you recon- something regardless of who you are. Its in the struct the work and thats the action of making moment when you return to that space and place the work. So, if you remember a piece and then you it could be say on a ship where everything conbuild it again in your mind, thats when and where stantly is moving around you, or it can be on a the action takes place, and thats when it is impor- street, or it can be in the arms of another person or tant. it can be in some sort of disaster. But it is in returning to that somehow constructed and then reconDaniel Birnbaum: Thank you. And this, I think is structed moment, thats my answer. a very relevant question for you, Jeff: Can art be original? Trisha Donnelly: Janet: How important is location? Jeff Koons: I believe that theres a need for every artwork to be original. Its original in its gesture. Its like thinking about a twig in the forest as you walk through; you hear tchch and that snap you see all the twigs lying there. Theres no sound until that moment, that tchch, that essence of originality, the participation of the artist, the viewer, recognizing their participation with the rest of humanity. So I think originality is important for bringing people together for a moment with the rest of humanity. Janet Cardiff: When youre having sex, location is really important. Graveyards are actually pretty good For an artwork, it definitely influences the way people respond to the art. The meaning of the work will change for a viewer if its in the MoMA or whether its in Central Park or whether its in somebodys little gallery or in somebodys basement, especially interesting when there is wood paneling next to it, thats really good. But to be serious, did you ask me about location because I do walks?

086 | ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream Ernesto Neto: Ive got a nice question now nice Jenny Holzer: Is this my reward? Oh, I have to come question now. Daniel: Are curators failed artists? back to you. Jeff: Why are some artists celebrities? Daniel Birnbaum: Well, I could say yes and everybody would be happy. I think there are some art- Jeff Koons: Oh, I think the reason that people ists who turn curators, there are some famous get involved in art has a lot to do with peoples inones, like Francesco Bonami, whos maybe not a securities. Whatever it is, I think that art is about failed artist exactly, but he used to be a painter. love. I think its about wanting love, its about But, you know, failure could be a good thing, wanting to love. If anybody really follows art and failure is maybe underestimated, it is a very pro- focuses on it, it will take you past wanting to be ductive thing. I may be a failed academic philoso- loved to loving. pher who started to do shows, so I think at least it used to be a fact that it was a very kind of unpre- Jenny Holzer: Liam: How much art history does dictable career. somebody have to know to be culturally literate? Curators came from all kinds of worlds and they started to do shows like Harald Szeemann who Liam Gillick: What a nightmare. Ive always advowas maybe a failed theater person, or a good one, cated that you dont need any classical art history I dont know, but then he started to do shows, and knowledge to make contemporary art. The whole that was a very good thing. And Im afraid that way traditional art history is taught is completely maybe today the whole art world, including cura- out of sync with the processes of contemporary tors, has become so professional, everybody is art. However, it is arguable that people always feel educated to be something, so there are no inter- this way. The phantoms in the corner of the room are the esting failures, only professionals. Now we come to the second part, and its the new art history people. Whats interesting is the same thing, actually, and Ill return to this box now number of young art historians that you meet who and we dont really know what kind of questions are very focused on whats happening in contemare in here, its just that the rules change a little bit, porary art and very dissatisfied with the structures so I ask someone to pick a question, read it, and of their education system. then tell someone to answer it. So chance is an So, in fact, what were seeing now is the emerinteresting thing, I think, its been a thing of great gence of these new people who are not quite from interest in art also, from Duchamp to Cage to within this kind of sphere of discussion that we are Liam Gillick, perhaps Francis Bacon wanted a familiar with. And theyre bringing a new set of signature of chance before a painting was finished, ideas to the discussion. and Im sure there are many others Mallarm, If I am evading the question, as always, thats but thats a long time ago because I think the future role of the self-deSo to start this round, Jeff, you can pick a ques- scribed art historian is one that is not clear. So tion, read it to yourself and think about who you the question is very hard to answer because it want to answer it. wont be really clear what is meant by an art historian much longer. Jeff Koons: Okay. Ill ask Jenny: Are the most expensive artworks the best? Daniel Birnbaum: Actually youve got two minutes, but the question was so hopeless Jenny Holzer: Clearly! Liam Gillick: No, no, its a very important question Daniel Birnbaum: Pick a question. for all of us.

ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream | 087 Daniel Birnbaum: Thanks. Janet, why dont you Daniel Birnbaum: Okay. Actually I see Rosa Martinez, the curator of the next Venice Biennale pick pick a question? a question and you dont have to answer it, so its Janet Cardiff: Okay, Trisha, actually no, I think very luxurious. Ernesto is better for it, Im not sure: Where did all the critics go? Rosa Martinez: Liam: Should collectors build their own museums? Ernesto Neto: Which critics? I think all the critics went away, you know, the critics come, get inside Liam Gillick: I think its a great idea. I think its of you, shake you, conflict you, and then go away fantastic, because concepts feed across from one and some of them stay and some of them go you to the other and the idea of the museum is not better let all of them go, its going to be more help- stable. Even the more boring magazines like New ful for you being an artist or not just a human York Magazine talk about the contemporary secbeing living in time and time is going and I am tion of MoMA being somewhat dull. So we are instill thinking: where did all the critics go? I would creasingly relying on private museums to give us like to go to the toilet now, you know a new model of how things could be done. While they can be wrong, they can be idiosynDaniel Birnbaum: And that is okay, because youll cratic, they can be irritating, they can be irresponbe back, I hope and then sible, these things are all quite interesting because they introduce a new level into the critical context Ernesto Neto: Oh yeah, okay which has to do with the idea of refusal. The idea of the collection as something complicated brings Daniel Birnbaum: Liam, pick a question. up ideas of refusal, behavior, and how to do things right and wrong. Liam Gillick: Can I ask you a question? Should the Things get boring when they become a mere state support the arts? reflection of the value systems of the classical museums. Daniel Birnbaum: Yes, I think so, I mean were in a situation where everything is getting more and Daniel Birnbaum: Thanks. Paola, take a question, more privatized and there are lots of private people Paola Pivi, an artist doing good things, lots of corporations and companies and lots of private houses being opened up Paola Pivi: Any one of them? Is there a place for for art, but I think of course its dependent upon morals and values in art? Whom should I ask this? the structure of the country and the state. Jeff? I grew up in a country where the state supported a lot of art, Scandinavia, Sweden, and Im working Jeff Koons: I remember thinking back to the sevin a place where its getting weaker and weaker enties, and it seemed that artists were afraid to Germany but there still is a lot of support and I exploit and to manipulate at least during the late think thats great, for instance for such a thing as seventies, it felt this way. So I believe that artists an art school where I work, I dont know what we should use all the tools they can to communicate. would do without state support, so I think: yes! Its your responsibility to the rest of humankind. Jenny: Who should manage an artists career? So thats a sense of morality. Jenny Holzer: I think its time for a little audience Daniel Birnbaum: Thanks. Who wants to pick a participation. question?

088 | ABC | ABMB04 | Conversation Stream Jeff Koons: How much planning should be con- Once upon a time, there was a boy who lived in a huge sidered important in the work? And I think this is house very close to the ocean and he went down to the a question for Trisha. ocean and he saw two dolphins coming there and one of the dolphins seemed strangely attracted to the boy Trisha Donnelly: I think its the distinction of what and came up to him and said planning means. Say there is a type of business planning where people actively plan, where they Janet Cardiff: What did you have for lunch, I want sit and have a meeting and they plan, and they some of that! But instead of the last words coming out think about what they are going to plan and they as lunch, his whole head turned into a great sea have meetings with others and they plan about monster and then he started floating up into the what theyre meeting about but I dont think that clouds, and as he was floating over this beach, he artists work necessarily or writers or anyone who came to the Shore Hotel and then he saw some white is thinking in a more abstract way plans in a curtains flying straightforward or conscious manner or that they would have something specific to be done on a Jenny Holzer: and all the curtains could think was certain day. Planning in this way can take about Why am I here, why am I here, what can I possibly thirty-five years and it started when you were four. say or mean to anyone that could make any difference Planning in terms of making often goes on without whatsoever and so the curtains passed your conscious understanding or your consideration of it as planning. Liam Gillick: and then the curtains went to sleep and then in the morning they woke up and drew themDaniel Birnbaum: Thanks. I think that we are go- selves, as curtains tend to do, and had a cup of coffee ing to change the rules one more time a little bit and then said, Shall I have another cup of coffee or and, since this is partly, well, not an homage but shall I kill myself? its related to previous experience in chance, for what the Surrealists were doing I will now start a Ernesto Neto: The curtains decided not to kill themlittle story. selves, the curtains said No, kill yourself is not good, is so good our life, we open, we close, we are here and there, and then the curtains decide that it was too long time stand there and then they start to fold themselves inside, and they fold and they turn their body inside out and then Trisha Donnelly: and the boy was still back on the beach, with no answer, no understanding, and he said to the sea monster who had floated up into the clouds and become a pair of curtains at the Shore Hotel: Who are the righteous, who are the righteous? Jeff Koons: and the dolphin answered: I just want room service. Daniel Birnbaum: Thanks a lot, to the group I am so happy this all worked out. The game is not over, you can all continue to ask questions and I just want to thank all the artists involved and thank you for paying attention thanks a lot!

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ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections | 095 Art Basel Conversations | Friday, December 3, 2004 Art Collectors Lounge, Miami Beach Convention Center

TRANSCRIPT | ART COLLECTIONS CASE STUDIES

What defines an art collection? Why are private collections opening up to the public? What are the responsibilities of private collectors? How important is the preservation of cultural heritage for a private collector? What are the deadly sins of collecting?

SPEAKERS | PALOMA BOTN ANTOINE DE GALBERT MARIELUISE HESSEL RODRIGO MOURA Host | ADRIANO PEDROSA

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Paloma Botn Member of the board and arts committee coordinator, Fundacin Marcelino Botn; advisor on the art collection of the Grupo Santander; Santander/ Madrid, Spain After graduating from Wellesley College in a double major of art history and Russian studies, Paloma Botns first professional involvement in the art world was to help coordinate Sothebys first Contemporary Art Auction in Moscow, Russia. From 1990 until 1992, Paloma worked for IFAR the International Foundation for Art Research in New York. Following her work in New York, she spent the next eleven years in the area of fine art insurance with Nordstern Art Insurance and Axa Art. In 2002, she was named to the board of the Fundacin Marcelino Botn, Santander, Spain, where she is also the art committee coordinator. Besides her activities with the foundation, she created Es Arte Deleitosa S.L., a firm specializing in art consulting for private and institutional collections. Paloma proposed to the Banco Santander Group a sculpture project for the new Financial City of the group in Madrid and since the approval of the project she has been the main coordinator between the bank and the advisors, Maria and Lorena de Corral. She is also active advising the bank on its art collection. [www.fundationmbotin.org] Antoine de Galbert Collector, president and founder of La Maison Rouge; Paris, France Born in 1955, Antoine de Galbert graduated in political science and worked in corporate management before running a contemporary art gallery in Grenoble for some ten years. Concurrently, he purchased the first works in a collection that was to take on growing importance in his life. In 2000 he chose to create a foundation that would give his commitment to contemporary creation both a permanent and a public dimension. [www.lamaisonrouge.org] Marieluise Hessel Private collector, founder and chair, Center for Curatorial Studies, Bard College; New York, NY, USA The Center for Curatorial Studies at Bard College is a 38,000-square-foot exhibition and research facility. In 1992, the Marieluise Hessel Collection was placed on permanent loan to the Center. The collection consists of over one thousand works of painting, sculpture, photography, works on paper, videos, and video installations from the late 1960s to the present, and documents the rise of late twentiethcentury issues in art and culture such as identity and multiculturalism. Over the years, Ms. Hessel has assembled a collection with museum-quality depth while retaining the personal imprint of a passionate, private collector. She continues to build and expand the collection, keeping it vibrant and forward-thinking. The works in the collection are available for study by graduate students, scholars, and guest curators at the Center and for use in the students masters degree exhibitions. The Center draws curators, artists, and scholars from all over the world to teach, and also houses a research library with more than fifteen thousand volumes and an extensive archive on contemporary art, both of which were initiated by gifts from Ms. Hessel. It has already produced a generation of curators working at prominent museums, galleries, and universities around the world. [www.bard.edu/ccs/] Rodrigo Moura Adjunct curator for exhibitions and collection, Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim (CACI); Minas Gerais, Brazil, curator at Museu de Arte da Pampulha; Belo Horizonte, Brazil Rodrigo Moura is a curator and writer based in Belo Horizonte. Since 2004, he has been adjunct curator for exhibitions and collection at Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim (CACI), Minas Gerais, Brazil. Hes also a curator at Museu de Arte da Pampulha (Belo Horizonte), where he recently organized solo shows by Ernesto Neto, Jos Bento, Fernanda Gomes, and Damin Ortega, among others. In the same institution he coordinated Bolsa Pampulha, a grant program devoted to emerging Brazilian artists. He has published in Arconoticias (Madrid), ArtNexus (Bogot), FlashArt (Milan), Folha de S.Paulo (So Paulo), Trpico (So Paulo), among others.

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Adriano Pedrosa Curator, writer, editor; So Paulo, Brazil Adriano Pedrosa is a curator and writer based in So Paulo. He studied law at the Universidade Estadual do Rio de Janeiro, economics at Pontifcia Universidade Catlica do Rio de Janeiro, art and critical writing at the California Institute of the Arts, Valencia, and comparative literature at the University of California, Los Angeles. He has published in Arconoticias (Madrid), Artforum (New York), Art Nexus (Bogot), Art+Text (Sydney), Flash Art (Milan), Folha de S. Paulo (So Paulo), Frieze (London), Lapiz (Madrid), Poliester (Mexico City), among others. He was adjunct curator and publications editor of the XXIV Bienal de So Paulo (1998), curator in charge of exhibitions and the collection at the Museu de Arte da Pampulha, Belo Horizonte (20012003).Curatorial projects include F[r]icciones (Museo Nacional Centro de Arte Reina Sofia, 2000/01, with Ivo Mesquita) and Farsites: Urban crisis and domestic symptoms (InSite_05, San Diego Museum of Art, Centro Cultural Tijuana, 2005). He has curated solo exhibitions of Beatriz Milhazes, Edgard de Souza, Ernesto Neto, Fernanda Gomes, Iran do Esprito Santo, Laura Lima, Rivane Neuenschwander, Rosngela Renn, and Valeska Soares, among others. Currently Pedrosa is curator of Coleo de Paisagens Paulo A. W. Vieira, Rio de Janeiro, Coleco Teixeirade Freitas, Lisbon, and Coleco de Desenhos da Madeira Madeira Corporate Services, Funchal, Madeira.

098 | ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections Introduction | Adriano Pedrosa These are the case studies with the collectors and curators of private collections and I would like to start by thanking Bvlgari and Sam Keller and especially Isabella Mora for gathering us here today, the speakers, and Maria Finders who organized the event with us. First of all, Riccardo Sardenberg, who is the artistic director of the CACI and one of the speakers scheduled, was unable to join us here in Miami, so his colleague, Rodrigo Moura, one of the curators at the Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim (CACI), Minas Gerais, Brazil, is here to replace him. I would like to start with Marieluise Hessel who is a private collector and the founder of the Center for Curatorial Studies at Bard College in New York. Presentation | Marieluise Hessel I asked my friends on the panel here to let me go first because I w as afraid I was going to be intimidated by all the power of knowledge they have.Im the only one, I think, here in the group that is not an art historian. I learned and became interested in art history through collecting. When I started collecting thirty-five years ago, the first phase was to buy art to hang on the walls. I also wanted to collect art. Although I knew little about contemporary art, I wanted to collect the art I knew. I loved Gustav Klimt and Egon Schiele, but buying them was impossible, I didnt have the money for them. So I started to visit galleries and began collecting contemporary art. It took me very little time before I got addicted to collecting. The second phase of my collecting began when I thought, well, what am I really going to do in terms of collecting? What am I going to collect? I thought, Im going to collect in a linear way. I will collect art as I encounter it during my life. I will collect works which reflect the modernist philosophy of constant progress. In the eighties, there were big changes in art, and finally I realized that I had started to accumulate art uncritically. Eventually, I realized that my previous decision to collect in a linear fashion didnt make sense anymore and that I needed to refocus. It seemed natural to me to focus the collection on issues of identity. What I consider the third phase of my collecting started at this point. I began with national identities: European, Asian, Latin American, and American. I started collecting American artists called Minimalists and also European artists that were called Arte Povera. While I had early on acquired some Minimal Art, I had to go back and fill out my collection by acquiring work from some artists important in the Minimalist movement.I did the same with Arte Povera. Actually, the very first works I bought were from Germany and were what I call early figuration. I collected Georg Baselitz, and Sigmar Polke, and Gerhard Richter paintings. My collection now has groupings with different kinds of identities such as national identities: European, Asian, Latin American, and American. Another grouping of identities has to do with women and early feminist issues: artists likeLouise Bourgeois, Nancy Spiro, and the Cuban artist, Ana Mendieta. One of the works that I bought in the eighties was an interesting painting by Jonathan Borofsky, My Male and my Female Self. It was a very interesting phenomenon at the time that another artist, a male artist, Robert Kushner, was doing work that had only been done by women, such as working with soft materials, doing decorative art, and doing nude performances. Francesco Clemente, like Robert Kushner, Lynda Benglis, Kim MacConnel all of their art in my collection shows the influence of their extended visits to India. I believe they had a need to experience life in a different culture and environment. That was very interesting to me. What comes to my mind is a quote from Philip Glass, who said that globalization started when the Beatles went to India. Other work from the eighties in my collection includes Joseph Zucker, Jean-Michel Basquiat, Keith Haring, Robert Longo, and Eric Fischl all very different and interesting. The 1980s were correctly called the Pluralist epoch. All of what I showed during the panel discussion is a small selection of over a thousand works in my collection. Theres also a large group of the second generation of important women artists like Cindy Sherman, and Jenny Holzer with her Lustmord series. This is a group of photographs that she made of women who were raped and tortured during the Bosnian war. The title, Lustmord, is a German word that means experiencing sexual pleasure through killing. The markings on the womens bodies tell the story of what happened to them in those rapes. I also collect the work of a wonderful German artist, Rosemarie Trockel, who is also involved with feminist issues. One work I have is an untitled work which is a male torso with hand-knitted pants. Other interesting artists of this generation and in my collection are Kiki Smith and Mona Hatoum. I think what I should add here is that a

ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections | 099 lot of my collection has also to do with my own identity.I somehow discovered and dealt with my own issues of identity through the works of art. I have learned a lot about myself through the arts. I have a very deep personal relationship to many of the works in my collection. One of the artists I have in my collection, Felix Gonzales Torres, was a very close friend, and I also have a very strong relationship to his work. Im very lucky to have his works. There is a very aggressive word painting by Christopher Wool which I bought when I was getting divorced and was very angry. Now Im very happy I own it, it is a great painting. Coming back to issues of identity in my collection, there are some great works by Lorna Simpson, Kara Walker, Fred Wilson, and Glenn Ligon. All of these artists deal with issues of race in the United States. Another grouping is of artists of Asian heritage, most of them living here in this country (USA) now and dealing with issues of culture and assimilation. Nikki Lee is one such artist. I also have many photos showing performances by Zhang Huan. I think that this concludes my presentation. Some other time I can speak of my collection of English sculptures and my video installation of Nam June Paiks Whitney Buddha Complex. Adriano Pedrosa: Thank you, Marieluise, indeed we have a short time so were trying to move on rather swiftly in order to have some time for a discussion afterwards. I forgot to add in my introduction that Hans Michael Herzog who is the director of Daros-Latinamerica in Zurich, chose not to come to Miami this time due to the results of the American elections. [Clapping] Moving forward, then, our next speaker is Rodrigo Moura, along with Ricardo Sardenberg, Jochen Volz, and Allan Schwartsman, he is one of curators who established the foundations of the Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim (CACI), Minas Gerais, Brazil.

100 | ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections Presentation | Rodrigo Moura My English is not very good so I will read something that I wrote for this presentation. I would like to thank Bvlgari and Art Basel Miami Beach for opening the space for us to present our collections to the public. I would like to thank in particular Samuel Keller and Isabela Mora for their continuing support of the CACI (Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim). I would also like to thank Ricardo Sardenberg, our artistic director, who unfortunately could not be here with us today. This morning, I would like to talk a little bit about the inception of the CACI, its context in Brumadinho, a small city in countryside Brazil, and Bernardo Paz, our sole patron and the main inspirational force behind the project. The CACI began almost twenty years ago when Mr. Paz, a former businessman from the mining industry, acquired a ranch in Brumadinho, a county forty-five miles away from the urban center of Belo Horizonte, a city with almost three million people. The estate is surrounded by green mountains and neighboring a small town of ten thousand people. Mr. Pazs main interest at the time was the garden that he developed on his ranch with the assistance of the landscape artist Roberto Burle Marx. Burle Marx, who is also a painter, is the main reference when it comes to landscape art in the twentieth century in Brazil and abroad. Both men developed a close friendship and for over eight years they worked tirelessly on a 50,000square-meter garden. In 1994, Burle Marx died, leaving Mr. Paz the seeds which matured into the CACI and its current collection. His vision and ambition as a collector were educated, in many ways, by the telluric ingredients that also inspired Burle Marx to work with a synthesis of art and landscape. Around 1999, during conversations with Tunga, one of the best-represented artists in our collection and a very influential figure in Brazil, he suggested to Mr. Paz that he should open his collection to the public and that, knowing his special passion to engage in dialogue with the artists, he should concentrate on collecting contemporary art. This idea opened new horizons for what could be done. At the time, Mr. Paz had a modest collection of contemporary art and virtually all of it was national. So, in conjunction with the construction of the first exhibition spaces, he decidedly went out to learn and get acquainted with artists and gallerists in Brazil and around the world. It was immediately understood that the main focus was to establish an international collection that would be evenly collected in conjunction with Brazilian art. The construction of the CACIs physical space posed a few challenges for all of us. Even though we were starting from scratch, with the advantage that both the collection and the space would be developed together, on the other hand, we had a pre-existing garden that we wanted to respect and maintain. Moreover, this was Mr. Pazs private ranch and his house was right in the middle of the grounds. Brazilian collectors tend to keep their collections either at home or in a warehouse, away from public viewing. Here, we wanted to transform a private home into a public space and a garden into a park. Our first decision concerning the collection was that the pavilions would be simple structures without any design that could compete with either the garden or the art inside. Almost in a warehouse style, they would be distributed between spaces for permanent installations and pavilions for temporary exhibitions. From the onset, Mr. Paz acquired large pieces by Tunga and others by Cildo Meireles. These works have a permanent space built specifically for them with the help of the artists. Meanwhile, he collected artists from the seventies, eighties, and nineties, artists such as Miguel Rio Branco, Ernesto Neto, Jos Damasceno, Jarbas Lopes and many others, all of them Brazilians in this case. All these artists are now part of the first display of the collection, with their works being part of temporary shows. Concurrently, we started to collect international artists who are from the same generations as their Brazilian counterparts, such as Dan Graham, Janet Cardiff, Larry Clark, Olafur Eliasson, Albert Oehlen, Thomas Schtte, Rirkrit Tiravanija, Damin Ortega, and Franz Ackermann, among others. Mr. Pazs collecting had an immediate impact on other collections and their practices in Brazil. First was the scale of the works themselves. Never before Brazilian collectors not even in a museum context had acquired large-scale works consistently, since most of it was destined for their homes. Further, some collectors have also been inspired by this venture, and are opening up their collections for public viewing and are lending artworks to museum for exhibitions. We had an opportunity, last September, to show a preview of the collection to some guests: collectors, gallerists, and critics from Brazil and abroad. After the preview, we established a program where we have been receiving school groups and other groups such as the elderly. We are now approaching our final inauguration date to the general public in 2005. Currently on view is a small part of the collection which consists of a total of almost 450 pieces. However, we believe that our exhibitions are a good overview of how we have come to collect over the last five years. So last year we invited Mr. Allan Schwartzman to participate on the curatorial board which now includes Jochen Volz, who was a curator at Portikus, Frankfurt, Ricardo Sardenberg, artistic director, and myself. At the time, I recall that Mr. Schwartzmans first observation was that we should not pursue an encyclopedic or historical or chronological collection of the art that was done in the last thirty years. Instead, we should try to create singular moments for each artist. Certainly, he was reacting to the large scale of the exhibition space as well as to the exuberance of the landscape. So, responding to that challenge, we decided to show fifteen monographic exhibitions and one group show and twelve sculptures in the garden. Before the September preview, only some inhabitants of Brumadinho had the experience of knowing the CACI, some of them working on the construction and the gardens, some as visitors. Our intention towards the local population is to get

ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections | 101 them into the museum, not just to work but mainly to get an experience of what contemporary art can be and to question what they see. Theyre discovering that it can be very close to their everyday life and not some kind of extraterrestrial manifestation. Most of them never had a close contact with this kind of art and their impressions and discoveries are very revealing. We are now building a great workshop, a new building, where we can actually develop complex artworks especially commissioned by the CACI, anything that needs sophisticated engineering. To that end, Maurcio Pereira, a top engineer who has been working with artists in Brazil for ten years, joined the team this year and he has done all the museographic installations for our current shows that you just saw. Mr. Paz began as a collector, he wanted to go to places and purchase the art. This has evolved and changed over the years. Now what interests him and what he directed us to do is to bring the artist to our context and have him create a piece there, site-specific, sharing possibilities and conversations. Thank you. Adriano Pedrosa: Thank you very much Rodrigo. Our next speaker is Paloma Botn, she is a member of the board and arts committee coordinator from the Fundacin Marcelino Botn in Santander and advisor of the Art Collection Grupo Santander in Madrid. Paloma, please.

102 | ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections In Conversation | Paloma Botn Antoine de Galbert Marieluise Hessel Rodrigo Moura Host | Adriano Pedrosa Paloma Botn: Thank you very much. Im going to show you the sculpture project undertaken in the outskirts of Madrid, at the Ciudad Grupo Santander, which is the corporate city which is the operative headquarters of the Group. It lies twenty-seven kilometers outside of Madrid in the town of Boadilla del Monte, which traces its history back to Roman times. The 140,000-meter-complex, designed by Kevin Roche, sits on 160 acres of land, which includes tennis courts, a modern training center gymnasium with indoor pool, and a PGA Golf course designed by Rees Jones, a convention center and a training center housing 80 trainees. 6,200 employees are currently working there. Adriano Pedrosa: Maybe you can start talking about the structure of the project? Paloma Botn: Well, the idea was to create a 3 D project, a sculpture project, as an integral part of the site. The projects curators are Maria and Lorena de Corral. We started last year with a Richard Serra sculpture, followed this year by Anish Kapoor, Dan Graham, Juan Muoz, Richard Deacon, Cristina Iglesias, Juan Asensio, Hamak, Chillida, and next year we are going to introduce younger artists, not only Spanish but also international artists. As the bank is present in different countries in the world, especially in South America, were also introducing Latin American artists. Adriano Pedrosa: Do you commission the works and do you acquire them and they stay permanently installed? Paloma Botn: Some works will be commissioned. We are going to bring the artists to see and be inspired by the space and to produce their work for us, and others, like Juan Muoz whos not here anymore, we acquired, as we did with Richard Serra. Adriano Pedrosa: And its a large-scale work? Paloma Botn: Yes, its a large-scale work that some of you will recognize because it was in Basel two years ago. Adriano Pedrosa: Can you tell us a little bit more about the space? Sorry, but Im just trying to develop things before we see the images Paloma Botn: Well apart from what was previously said the facility hosts the largest workplace daycare center in Europe, for four hundred children of the employees. On the site there is also a one-thousand-seat auditorium, shops, and five restaurants. So thats why the project is a threeyear project, because you cant just bring in the artists and start putting in the sculptures if the construction is still going on. In addition to the exterior space, there is a 2,500square-meter exhibition space. We are building an exhibition space because the bank also has a collection of works of art ranging from El Greco to Picasso to contemporary art, tapestries, a coin collection, a paper bills collection and so the idea of the chairman was to create a place to unite all the important works. I mean, like most corporate collections, all these pieces were placed in the offices of the general managers, of the chairman, and what he wishes now is that all this art should be shown so that everybody can see it. So thats why the core of the collection will be placed into the exhibition space so that all the employees, the shareholders, and even the public can come and visit it. At the moment, some of the works of the collection are traveling to Mexico, theyve also been traveling to Chile and other countries, so the idea is to open the collection to the public which is good, because many people have never seen the collection. They may have seen a few works when they went on loan to exhibitions. I think this is positive. And they are also going to organize temporary exhibitions and special programs so that the families of the employees can come and look at the art, with guided tours and education for families and children. These special cultural programs will bring life to this corporate city. And on the weekends, when the employees leave on Friday, the site will be open for the public so they can come and see the permanent collection, the sculpture collection and maybe play some golf. Its a new way of looking at the conjunction between a corporate collection and public art. I think thats it, Im sorry you cannot see the sculptures because of all the technical problems. Now youll all then just have to come to Madrid to see the sculpture collection, next year. Adriano Pedrosa: Thank you very much, Paloma and we are again sorry for the technical problems. Our next speaker is Antoine de Galbert, whos a private collector and founder of La Maison Rouge in Paris. Antoine de Galbert: Good morning and thank you to Art Basel. As anybody knows, French people dont speak English with ease and Maria will help me to translate. I am a French collector, not very important, a modest collector, and I think collecting is like a Utopia, it is never finished, we need a lot of time, a lot of mind, and I think its very soon for me to speak about my collection. So I opened a foundation in Paris in June. This foundation is going to show other collectors and now we have Falckenbergs collection who is a great collector in Hamburg, Germany. What can I say? La Maison Rouge, the red house, is about two thousand square meters dedicated to exhibitions and we are going to be alternating our program from showing private collections to showing artists. So after the Falckenberg collection, we are going to show Anne Hamilton in February, and then other collections .

ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections | 103 Maria Finders: When we were speaking a little while ago, you were saying that you dont actually have a collection thats very big and you wanted to make a space open to others Antoine de Galbert: I have a collection which is minor, but I think I need more time with it. If you know Jean Genet, he was a very great French writer, and he wrote a very good book with the name LAtelier de Giacometti Giacomettis Studio. It is a very nice book, and in his book hes saying Seul le peuple des morts doit juger de la perennite dune oeuvre. Maria Finders: In English we would say Only the dead can judge how long a work of art will last. Antoine de Galbert: So, it is not up to me to say that I am a collector although I am really others, like my wife, can say that I am, but it is not my place to judge this. This is really all about my life, but I dont want to say that. I think its pretentious. Maria Finders: So Antoine,what was behind your decision to show in such an important way the work of other collectors? Antoine de Galbert: Because I love collecting and I love collectors, and I think its fantastic, your collection in the face of other collections, but mine is never finished, I cant show it. Adriano Pedrosa: And you are the sole founder of La Maison Rouge? Antoine de Galbert: Yes, I am the founder, and I buy without any curators or counselors. Its a very special influence, I think a little different; its not the same spirit like in Germany or the United States. Adriano Pedrosa: Can you tell us a little bit about the collection itself, how many works, what kind of works?

104 | ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections lic responsibility is very personal and you have to make that decision. I, however, do think you have a responsibility toward the artists in general. Youre sort of the custodian of the artworks, and I see myself more as a custodian of the artworks. Adriano Pedrosa: Oh, youd rather not speak I just opted to make my collection public because I wanted to show the way I saw art during the time about the artists in the collection? that I am collecting. So, while Im still collecting Antoine de Galbert: No, but I will be very happy to I feel very responsible towards the artists and maksee you in Paris in my foundation! ing a contribution to the preservation of the art, so that it will survive historically and physically. Adriano Pedrosa: Well, thank you then. We have some minutes for questions from the audience, Adriano Pedrosa: I think the other three speakers so Id like to ask if any of you have very objective, did speak about their collections being open to the straightforward questions that we could ask the public somehow, so I wonder if youd like to focus speakers anyone? a bit more and direct your question to one particular speaker? Id like to try to avoid general quesAudience: I wanted to ask the last speaker, if you tions for all of them because we dont have much dont care to name the artists in your collection, time, Im sorry. do you have a focus? I mean, you have such an extraordinary focus with your foundation, and you Audience: I was trying to keep it a simple question show other collectors, so do you have any personal I guess there are many collections and there are focus in your own collecting? many people in the audience who are collectors and who collect as does Antoine de Galbert, in a Antoine de Galbert: Yes, I have. I love a subjective subjective way. But they also feel that they need to thematic. So, if the works or the artists are well make their collection open to the public. I guess known and quite expensive, or new works from one of the things that has arisen over the last week very young artists yet to be discovered, it does not or so and I was intrigued by an article in the New really matter to me. York Times which has gone elsewhere which is an interview with Charles Saatchi. Adriano Pedrosa: Other questions? In the interview he was asked whether he felt that a collector has a public responsibility and his Audience: Id like to ask all of the panelists one of answer to that was There will always be rich peothe questions that was actually cited in the intro- ple. Its an interesting answer, it doesnt answer duction to this panel and I dont think anyone has the question, of course. I thought, as we are in Miami and since many of really yet answered: Do collectors have a public responsibility? us have seen the most amazing collections since weve been here that are open to the public this Adriano Pedrosa: I would actually like to address opens up a number of possibilites. It seems to me this question to Marieluise, and to let her also that what is happening now is that more and more speak a little bit about her relationship with collectors are opening their collections to the pubBard College. lic. This demonstrates, in some way, part of a growing fabric that is an independent fabric with muMarieluise Hessel: Well I think if you have a large seums, both private and public, and I think this is collection, whether or not you feel you have a pub- a very positive thing. Antoine de Galbert: I have a lot of works, for example, Brazilian artists and also some Americans, but for me its kind of like talking about my children Antoine de Galbert: You speak about Saatchi. Saatchi as a very big collector but in a Barnum & Bailey Circus kind of way. I think he is not exactly doing things in the best way. We have a lot of collectors in Europe also in the United States, although I dont know them very well but they are all very clever and some have created big spaces, like Hoffmann and Falckenberg in Germany which are very useful for the public and for the artists. Although I really dont want to be derogatory in any way, I think that Saatchi is working for himself, not for the artists and for the public.

ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections | 105 Marieluise Hessel: You used the word competition. I do not feel any competition, I dont think I cant speak for others but I have the freedom to collect whatever I want to collect based on my personal vision, my personal ideas. I think within a museum context you dont have that freedom. Mostly, museums collect by committee or they are really more forced or more obliged to follow guidelines, aesthetic guidelines which I, as a private collector can choose to break or discard. I can say I think this is terrific and I dont have to justify it in front of anybody. So I think that this is maybe the biggest difference between public institutions and private collections. I know there are certain Adriano Pedrosa: Any other questions? parts of my collections that museums would not collect so Im proud of having that work. So while Audience: My name is Anne Stack. I would like to the approach is different, I dont think it is comask if there is a competition. What is the relation- petitive, at least not in my case. ship between the private collectors opening their collections to the public as museums fine art Adriano Pedrosa: Thank you, Marieluise. Other museums? questions? Adriano Pedrosa: Who is your question addressed Audience: My name is Eva Rado and my question to? Anyone in particular? is to Marieluise and the gentleman from France: Have you made sure that your collection will stay Audience: I think I start with Paloma, and then intact in fifty or a hundred and fifty years? Because, Marieluise, please. I know as a private collector myself, that there were a lot of things that my children didnt want, and Paloma Botn: Well I think its about different re- I made sure that those pieces have been donated sponsibilities. What I think is that private collec- to museums, as opposed to keeping the collection tors are becoming more and more conscious of together and mine is nowhere as large as any of their contribution, not only to the art world, but yours. Have you made sure that its taken care of? their personal contribution to the artists and to For example, some collectors, like the Vogels, have the galleries. donated their collection to the Smithsonian and Donating works to the museums is a different I could go on about other collectors, because responsibility than opening your own museum, of I think its important for future generations to see course. And again, it depends if you are consider- one collectors or one curators vision intact. ing donating the work to a state museum or to a private museum. Marieluise Hessel: Well, I can tell you about my Public museums have different missions be- personal dispositions. I did take care of this, for cause they have to cater to a broader audience, in example, to keep the collection together, Im puta way to educate the public. Within a private mu- ting it in my own foundation so it cannot be seum or collection, the collector offers something changed, that no other person, when Im gone, can he or she wants to share with society, something come and say Well I dont like this or I dont like that, so lets sell it and well put it into our budget more personal.

106 | ABC | ABMB04 | Art Collections and well buy something else. Its all in a foundation and the foundation will maintain the collection as it is. I guess that answers your question. Antoine de Galbert: I think we have these solutions: I can give my collection to my foundation one day. I dont know if my collection is still mine My collection is only clear in my mind and its not my childrens, so its up to me to find a way to preserve it. Audience: I actually would also like to ask Rodrigo Moura from the CACI, which is a foundation as well, if anything has been planned in this respect in terms of keeping the collection together. Rodrigo Moura: [Spoken in Portuguese, translated by the moderator] Its still a very young collection thats been constructed only in the past four years. And, in fact, its main agenda at this point is in terms of physical conservation of the actual artworks themselves as opposed to some judicial status.

P.S. Art Basel Conversations would like to apologize to Paloma Botn for the technical problems which occurred during her presentation.

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 111 Art Basel Conversations | Saturday, December 4, 2004 Art Collectors Lounge, Miami Beach Convention Center

TRANSCRIPT | ARCHITECTURE FOR ART THE LIMITS OF ART AND ARCHITECTURE

What are the opportunities and risks of museum architecture? Does architecture limit art, or does art limit architecture? Will architecture be a defining factor for the future of the museum? How can architecture adapt to growth and change in an art institution or museum? In which ways can a museum affect the life of a city?

SPEAKERS | KATHY HALBREICH REM KOOLHAAS HANS ULRICH OBRIST Host | TERENCE RILEY

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Kathy Halbreich Director of the Walker Art Center; Minneapolis, MI, USA Kathy Halbreich has been Director of the Walker Art Center, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, since 1991. Prior to assuming this position, she was the Founding Curator of the Department of Contemporary Art at the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, from 1988 to 1991, and Director of the Albert and Vera List Visual Arts Center at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Massachusetts, from 1976 to 1986. While at M.I.T., Halbreich worked with architect I. M. Pei and artists Scott Burton, Richard Fleischner, and Kenneth Noland to design the List Visual Arts Center building, a collaboration which became a national model for architects and artists working together. She currently is working with Herzog & de Meuron, the Swiss architectural firm which won the Pritzker Prize in 2001, on a 125,000-squarefoot expansion for the Walker which will open in 2005. Halbreich recently curated (with Neal Benezra, Hirshhorn Museum and Sculpture Garden, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC) the retrospective exhibition Bruce Nauman (1994), which traveled to many venues throughout the United States and Europe as well as Bordering on Fiction: Chantal Akermans DEst(1995), the first museum exhibition of the Belgian filmdirector, and Against Nature: Contemporary Japanese Art (1989). Halbreich has served as a Curatorial Advisor for the Carnegie International, in 1988, and as Commissioner for the North American region for the first Kwangju Biennale held in 1995 in Kwangju, Korea. Halbreich serves on the board of Achieve! Minneapolis which creates greater resources for Minneapolis public schools; and has served on the National Endowment for the Arts Federal Advisory Committee on International Exhibitions; and on the boards of the Twin Cities Public Television, St. Paul, The Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, New York, Piper Jaffray Companies, Inc., Minneapolis, and the International Selection Committee for Documenta 10, in Kassel, Germany. [www.walkerart.org] Rem Koolhaas Architect, OMA; Rotterdam, The Netherlands Rem Koolhaas founded the Office for Metropolitan Architecture in 1975 together with Elia and Zoe Zenghelis and Madelon Vriesendorp. Having worked as a journalist and script writer before becoming an architect, he graduated at the Architectural Association in London and in 1978 published Delirious New York, a Retroactive Manifesto for Manhattan. In 1995, his book S,M,L,XL summarized the work of OMA and established connections between contemporary society and architecture. Rem Koolhaas is a professor at Harvard University where he conducts the Project on the City, a research program investigating changing urban conditions around the world. The projects include a study on Chinas Pearl River Delta (published as Great Leap Forward), an analysis of the role of retail and consumption in the contemporary society (The Harvard Guide to Shopping), and studies on Rome, Lagos, Moscow, and Beijing. Rem Koolhaas is heading the work of OMA and AMO, the conceptual branch of OMA focused on social, economical, and technological developments and exploring territories beyond architectural and urban concerns. With AMO, Rem Koolhaas was recently guest editor of Wired magazine. [www.oma.nl] Hans Ulrich Obrist Curator, Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France Hans Ulrich Obrist was born in 1968 in Zurich, and currently lives and works in Paris. In 1993, he founded the Museum Robert Walser and started the Migrateurs program at the Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris where he now serves as Curator for Contemporary Art. From 1991 he has curated or co-curated numerous exhibitions including: Christian Boltanski, Monastery Library, St. Gallen (1991); Gerhard Richter, Nietzsche Haus, Sils Maria (1992); Htel Carlton Palace, Paris, 1993; The Broken Mirror, Vienna Festival (1993); Manifesta I, Rotterdam (1996); Life/Live, Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris and Centro Belem, Lisbon (1996); Cities on the Move, Secession Vienna, CAPC Bordeaux (1997), Hayward Gallery, London/Kiasma, Helsinki/Bangkok (1999); 1st Berlin Biennial (1998); Laboratorium, Antwerp Open (1999); Sogni/Dreams, Fondazione Rebaudengo (1999); Retrace your steps: Remember tomorrow, Sir John Soane Museum, London (19992000); and Mutations, Arc en Rve, Bordeaux (2000); Mutations: vnement culturel sur la ville contemporaine, Arc en Rve, Bordeaux (2000/01) and TN Probe, Tokyo (2001); Traverss, ARC, Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris (2001); Bridge the Gap? CCA Kitakyushu; The Air is Blue, Barragan House, Mexico City (2002/2003); Utopia Station, 50th Venice Biennale (2003) and Haus der Kunst, Munich (2004); Yang Fudong and Jim Lambie, The Moore Space, Miami (2003). He co-curated the Dakar Biennial (2004). For ARC/ Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris, and in recent years the monographic exhibitions of Olafur Eliasson, Philippe Parreno, Steve McQueen, Jonas Mekas, Yoko Ono, and Anri Sala. He also edited a book about Cedric Price, Re: Cp. The first volume of his ongoing interview project was recently collected in Hans Ulrich Obrist Interviews, Florence, 2003. Terence Riley Philip Johnson Chief Curator of Architecture, MoMA; New York, NY, USA Terence Riley is the Philip Johnson Chief Curator of Architecture and Design at the Museum of Modern Art, New York. He studied architecture at the University of Notre Dame and Columbia University and established an architectural practice with John Keenen before joining the museum. Keenen/Rileys work has been published and exhibited widely. In 1989, Mr. Riley curated Paul Nelson: Filter of Reason, the inaugural exhibition at the Arthur Ross Architecture Galleries at Columbia University, where he served as Director until 1991. In October of 1991, Mr. Riley joined MoMA, and was appointed Chief Curator in September of 1992. He was a Staff Liaison to MoMAs Architect Selection Committee, which announced in December of 1997 the appointment of Yoshio Taniguchi to design the new Museum. Mr. Riley is a frequent contributor to journals and other publications on design. He is also involved in many competition juries, including the WTC, the 9/11 memorial at the Pentagon, the Praemium Imperiale, and the Motown Museum. [www.moma.org]

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114 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art Presentation | Kathy Halbreich Walker Art Center Mission: The Walker is a catalyst for the creative expression of artists and the active engagement of audiences. We examine the questions that shape and inspire us as individuals, cultures, and communities. Vision: The new Walker, with its unique mix of multidisciplinary programs and socially animated spaces, will become a place of convergence, bringing artists, art forms, and audiences together in innovative ways. Introduction: Today I would like to talk about the Walker, from the inside and out, and the new expansion that Herzog & de Meuron have been working on with us. In large measure, the programs of the Walker shaped the final architecture. In establishing the architectural program for the new facility, one of our primary goals was to define the lines of convergence, to create a place where the disciplines intersect. The Walker is quite a unique model in the sense that along with exhibitions and the collection, theres the largest museum-based performing arts program (in America) and an active cinema program focusing on both independent film from around the world and studio productions from Hollywood. All of these disciplines will have new presentation spaces, allowing for both audiences and artists to come together across media. We believe this is something of a new model. We also were keen to create a platform for the convergence of our visitors social, educational, and artistic experiences. In doing research on why and how people come to museums, we learned a very interesting thing people usually come in twos so the possibility of enhancing the connection and comfort which grow out of conversation is right there at the beginning of our visitors experience and relationship to the institution. So weve tried to design a laboratory for conversation as well as a laboratory where new works can be made and seen. In fact, the two are linked as we know new work (which doesnt come in a gold frame) requires greater imaginative and intellectual leaps; the institution shouldnt pretend to provide answers but it can create a climate which makes new ideas more approachable. Also, referring to the convergence of inside and out and Ill talk a little bit about this later I think there is a very strong civic imperative to connect the city and the institution. Parallel to this, we need to consider the Walkers past, because the future program for the building is based in large measure on our own innovative history. Were not so much creating a new institution as giving physical form to what has made it unique for at least three decades. We wanted to create an interior that operates as a medieval city with streets and plazas and cafs for learning and room for serendipity. The experience couldnt be linear (anymore than progress is). Transformations: T. B. Walkers first house became the first Walker. T. B. Walker built the first public institution in the Upper Midwest, which opened right before the Depression when it became a laboratory for W.P.A. artists. (The W.P.A. stands for the Works Progress Administration which was created to provide economic relief to the citizens of the United States including artists during the Depression which began with the stock market crash of 1929.) So the support of living artists and the way they work have been very much a part of our programming since our beginning. As architecture always reflects its own age, the Walkers design also changed over the years: T. B.s house was replaced by a museum with a Moroccan faade which then was overlaid with a moderne skin. This building existed until 1971, when it was replaced by a very beautiful, very minimalist, very hermetic facility designed by the modernist architect Edward Larabee Barnes. While there are fantastic galleries in the space, it has almost no windows, which has lead some to criticize it for its bunker-like appearance. What was great about Barness building was that the galleries were really like elegant loft spaces and in 1971 thats how artists were living and working. The whole campus of the Walker we really are thinking of it as a cam-

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 115 pus stretches along the busiest street in the Twin Cities; 50,000 cars go by each day. The original Walker is a spiral much like the Guggenheim; the expansions form suggests that the spiral has been sprung like a deck of cards. Four acres of green space have also been added which eventually will connect to an 11.5-acre sculpture garden, a publicprivate partnership between the citys Park and Recreation Board and the Walker. In all, the campus will be about seventeen acres. One of the really big and early decisions involved in designing the expansion was that, rather than maintaining the main entrance on Vineland Avenue facing the garden, we re-oriented the building back to Hennepin Avenue like that original moderne structure in an effort to suggest our embrace of the city. (In truth, Walker activities such as artist in residences and educational programs housed in a vehicle designed by Joep Van Leishout take place throughout the neighborhoods so this embrace is both symbolic and literal.) There are two patterns here that I think are very important: this [slide] is actually a picture of the skin as it is going up; its a homogneous pattern made up of 4 x 4-foot embossed aluminum pillows hung on the impervious surface wall. So it really is a decorative skin which has no structural imperative; it creates a random pattern which was found on the internet rather than calibrated by an architect. Through the miracles of the computer, by rotating those pillows you can get an overall pattern rather than a tiling effect as the three-dimensional pattern of each one of the four sides of a pillow can link up with the pattern of the sides of the adjoining pillow. All that suggests is our desire to break with the whole idea of the modernist grid, and this disruption can be seen throughout the building. The other pattern thats quite unusual to find in a modern or contemporary museum is an abstract pattern adapted from an image of a baroque textile which I imagine was originally inspired by nature; similarly, the pattern we see inside and outside of the building today was appropriated from the photograph and adjusted via computer to fit our

View of the New Walker Art Center.

View of the Cargill Lounge

View of Best Buy Info Lounge

Courtesy of Herzog & de Meuron

116 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art needs. I love this inter-change between the original and its recycled twin, between nature and the manmade (because its almost everything in nature today has been touched by man and because it seems the perfect reflection of artistic practice.) The idea of using this pattern grew out of our thinking about the skin which we initially thought would be fabric rather than metal; it was as if the building were dressed. Finally, this pattern relates to the building itself which sits between the man-made animation of the city and the man-made contemplation of the Garden. Theres this constant collision of the two patterns. Transparency: When I moved to Minneapolis fourteen years ago, I was struck by the fact that there was an incredible park system where many people gathered and also the Mall of America which is the largest shopping arena in the United States. There were, however, no good indoor spaces for people to come together. And I began to think was it possible that we could create an alternative to the Mall, a place where you would acquire ideas rather than things. One of the things that was very important to us was to create a network of indoor social spaces that suggested some of the same casualness as the garden. So much of the conversation that went into creating intimate social spaces highlighted for us some of what we thought were the limitations of traditional definitions of museum they were places set off from the street, you ascended the stairs to enter, you were trapped by an enfilade of galleries, you had to search for the education spaces in the basement, and you had to look hard to find a comfortable place to sit and talk. Creating a social destination a gathering place that was not event-dependent became one of the directives; perhaps its easiest to see in the Hennepin Lounge, which embraces the city and is very much a part of the cinematic vitality of the space. Its a civic space with domestic attributes. The contrast in scale from large to intimate was also very important so there are spaces that fit three people and there are spaces that fit four hundred. The original Barnes building was impressive but its posture and withdrawn nature sort of dared you to enter. Our desire was for greater transparency, for opening up the Barnes building to the life of the street. The new structure was designed to let the passer-by be a participant in this institution. People watching or voyeurism also became a way to think about interior spaces. Throughout the building there are actual physical cuts in the wall. The walls are double-thickness for a couple of reasons: all the mechanical systems are in them and, since the walls of the new galleries meet the floor without a slot for air return, we needed an alternative system which these interstitial spaces provide. The other reason was to create small, interactive educational spaces along the circulation path so people didnt have to go anywhere special to have a learning experience. In the new Walker, these areas, which are built into the walls, arent called education spaces but, rather, an arcade and info lounge, making the idea of learning more organic and less of a vitamin. Another reason for these in-between spaces is that our lighting designer Arnold Chan told us early on that if one moves from the public spaces which are flooded with natural light directly into the galleries, the galleries will look dark. So we needed a place where your eyes could adjust to the light. The new extension feels like a very hand-made building. It was designed, as all buildings are in a way, somewhere between the pencil and the computer, but all of the public areas are incredibly sensuous: they are just plaster, but the plaster has marble dust in it. One of the things that is truly amazing to me is that everybody wants to touch the wall, and that kind of sensuality and intimacy of touch is fitting for a place about physical experiences. We were also very concerned not to create the kings palace. We really wanted to use materials that not only fit our budget, which was about $ 67.5 million, but also were vernacular or recognizable. What was really different, however, about these spaces was the extraordinary level of craft which is very visible (but not oppressively so). But nothing is gratuitous; for example, the open pattern of the doors allowed the galleries to be seen at night; when youre in the building for a party, you can perhaps be seduced to come back the next day and actually see whats in the galleries. But again, its a slight disruption of the white cube with social spaces. Continuity and Change: The new galleries, in fact, are recognizably Barnes, which was very important in terms of establishing the continuity we desired between old and new spaces. The new galleries have the same terrazzo floor as Barness, and they have a similar ceiling. We thought the old galleries were really among the best around, so why invent them anew? We liked that the experience of walking among the galleries would be the same. One of the changes was that the walls meet the floor which has to do with the display of minimalist sculpture; for example, when we put a Carl Andr floor sculpture that is supposed to connect with the architecture next to the wall we were always filling in reveal. Another thing that was very important to us was to continue to have flexible (not neutral) galleries that we could build out differently depending upon the needs of the artist, the scale of the work etc. As we change the interior architecture of the galleries several times a year, they had to really work in many different ways: sometimes as construction sites, sometimes as repositories of very precious objects. The other thing thats important is that no gallery is dedicated to any particular media or discipline so we had to be able to show video next to painting. But the main reason we didnt want natural light in the galleries was because we wanted to create distinct experiences between the presentation and social spaces, between the galleries and the cinema, between the interactive spaces and the theater. In a certain way, the whole project is about embedding these presentation spaces the galleries, the theater, the cinema in a very socially active space or town square its sort of like the way the institution functions within the network of the city. Another aspect that came up was the desire to have

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 117 permanent and temporary exhibition galleries in both the new and old buildings; we didnt want to tempt people to say I have seen the collection, I am not going there. The final circulation between the old and new galleries is seamless, the experience is continuous, and that was one of the hardest things to achieve. We didnt want visitors to find the transitions difficult. Signage how we communicate with the public was a very important element for the project and, after long negotiations with the city, we managed to get a variance to permit scrolling signage. One thing that has always driven me crazy is banners that are affixed to the building because it looks like hanging your laundry and the Walker has to pick one thing among hundreds with which to seduce the viewer. Since we are a center where things are always changing and a performance may occur for one night while an exhibition is up for three months, we wanted scrolling signage that would say Baryshnikov, rehearsal at 2 p.m., Kara Walker lecture at 6 p.m, it couldnt be static and needed to reflect the changing nature of contemporary communication, art. Again, we really thought about how aspects of the building had to suggest that there was really no great stability in contemporary art and definitions were constantly changing. Public Learning Space: One of the public learning spaces along the route is inhabited by the Dialog Table, an interactive, conversation-enhancing object, the programming of which is based on games theory. We wanted to get away from the isolation of people working at their individual monitors; instead, if Im of looking at information on Jasper Johns and another participant is reviewing materials on Rauschenberg, little characters will cross the large screen in the table and point out that we have something to talk about, something in common. This search may even take us to Merce Cunningham, who Jasper Johns designed sets for and who has performed at Walker fifteen times or so during his career. So again the idea is to break the social as well as aesthetic silos which have characterized so much of our modernist experi-

118 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art ences. The model is more of a hybrid, of crossing lines and creating networks. In these social spaces it is really about people saying to each other There is a wonderful wine bar next to the cinema, so lets meet there after the film and talk about what weve seen. Its about someone who may be skeptical coming for a meal and staying for a performance. I hope that in the wine and coffee bar outside of the cinema well serve fortune cookies which, when you open them up, will read Turn to the person on your left and tell them the strangest thing youve seen! Now you have to understand we show a lot of strange things, so this whole building was really about trying to make the envelope which surrounds the art more and more inviting so that the art might be more approachable. Its about creating the destination that makes it easier to see and begin to grapple with something strange and unfamiliar. Its about creating bridges for people to new experiences. Certainly, weve learned lots of things from the retail world but were applying those lessons in the hopes the institution can be less marketdriven by focusing on the visitors entire experience rather than by exhibiting the tried and true. This [slide] is the Cargill Lounge, where you can see were flirting with the domestic in any number of ways; this chandelier actually appears throughout the building its made from waste material which, I think, in this age of the ready-made, is an appropriate idea. Its made out of the glass thats left at the bottom of a kiln; its chipped out and makes these crystal forms (not unlike many of the openings in the building). Some spaces like this lounge are intended to be contemplative spaces, a place for reading a newspaper from the country where one of the artists-in-residence comes from, a place for book club meetings. Here you see the Lawrence Wiener [slide] Bits and Pieces, which presently is on the outside of our building. It was the first commission Lawrence had in this country and I always loved how it talked about the connection between community and the individual, between institutions and the city, and on and on. In this slide it actually leads downstairs to the original entrance of the Barnes on Vineland (which remains as the main connection between the sculpture garden and the center). The stair itself becomes a little amphitheater as well. You can see the connection again between the new brick (which is the same brick as the Barnes building is made of) and the old terrazzo, so it keeps coming back to this dance between the past and present, to connection and convergence. Art Center in a Garden: When you go down the stairs from the Cargill Lounge, youre in the Barnes building. When you cross Vineland Street, youre in the sculpture garden so presently were an arts center across from a garden. In the next phase, we hope to be perceived as an arts center in the garden with the life of the street on the other side. Michel Desvigne from Paris is designing the garden and has worked closely with the architects from Herzog & de Meuron to undergird the connection between inside and out. What I did not show you today is that the Guthrie Theater is on this site; theyll be moving to a new complex designed by Jean Nouvel in 2006 and then well go into construction again. In the old garden, you will see Claes Oldenburgs Spoon Bridge and Cherry which, like many great public works, has become kind of emblematic of the city. In the new, there will only be one sculpture there for the opening on April 16, and you can see theres a little temporary tent above this structure thats actually a James Turrell sculpture for viewing the sky; given Minnesotas climate, it will have heated seats since we are very hardy and, even in the winter, spend time outside. People can actually sit in this space all year round and have a more meditative experience than they might have with the Oldenburg. So everything we have done in a funny way is to expand upon and challenge our own history. If you see the Oldenburg and you see the Turrell, you would have two very different experiences with the history of sculpture. On the Hennepin side, there is a huge cantilever that reaches out to the street; it was one of the most complicated engineering feats that had been done in Minnesota I didnt know that until the superintendent on our project (who joined us after completing Gehrys Disney Hall) responded when I asked Arent you glad to be working on an easier building? as if I were a mad woman, which I am. He said This is a much more complex engineering job. I dont know what I would have done if I had known from the beginning how much this feat would cost but it really is a critical part of the story the expansion tells. Above the entrance on the Hennepin side is a big window behind which is the more up-scale of the two restaurants. We are in a neighborhood so we hope people will come for dinner and stay for the movie or a performance; we hope the institution becomes more a part of everyday life. On the very top, theres a special events space where any of you who are planning your weddings are welcome. These spaces frame the city in the most remarkable ways; the fact that the life of the city was brought to us by a team of Swiss architects is kind of remarkable. Whats funny is that the Walker is surrounded by churches; I wish I believed the old saying that the museum has replaced the temple because we certainly have become a greater part of that local landscape. I guess I dont believe the metaphor because I dont believe a museum should ever be about a single cultural belief. This [slide] is the new theater thats in construction; weve had a performing arts program for thirty years and we do about seventy to eighty events a year, everything from the Kronos Quartet to world music, to dance, to jazz, to new theater. In fact, the night and the day of the opening, Phil Glass and Meredith Monk as well as several other artists will be performing. Phil Glass opened the last building in 1971 so its emblematic again of the kind of partnerships we have with artists throughout their career. The space is quite unusual; its only 385 seats but it has the fly space and stage of a 1000-seat theater. It makes no financial sense but it is fantastic for artists and we anticipate that there are art forms we dont have names for yet that in this laboratory setting will become invented. The other reason the stage is so big is that

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 119 we commission a lot of new work that travels to other larger venues and the new dimensions allow the artists to make work which better fit the stages in major theaters throughout the world. Sometimes the commissions are great, sometimes the work transitional, sometimes its terrible thats the process and if we didnt do that we wouldnt be doing our job. When we commissioned work in the past, the rehearsals the creative process were never accessible because we were sharing space throughout the community. We built two balconies into this space where the public who perhaps is coming to see Huang Yong Pings retrospective will also stay for a rehearsal. It may be boring, it may be electrifying but it allows the novice as well as the aficionado to see the serious way an artist proceeds. It both de-mystifies and elevates the final production. So the theater provides the audience with a uniquely intimate experience and the artist with the capacity to invent the equivalent of what opera is in this next era. We think of it as a place which expands definitions and functions like a laboratory. In terms of site and circulation, the new Walker was an incredible challenge; if theres genius in this building, I believe it has to do with the ways in which the visitor is able to move through the spaces, through old and new places. Its really about giving visible form to our mission. I want to just remind you again why this building is being built: its really because the Walker is a catalyst for the creative expression of artists and the active engagement of audiences. We think it is possible to bring innovation to both sides of the equation and I hope this is reflected in the spirit of this new place. Thank you.

120 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art Presentation | Rem Koolhaas Rem Koolhaas: I want to give a presentation of a number of buildings in a category where our office has been very active but where we also have been very unsuccessful: namely museums, architecture for art. And I would like to start with this [slide] which shows the behavior of the Wall Street stock market which shows, in various outlines, the extension programs of a number of different museums. The Louvre and the Metropolitan are taken as two emblems and so what you really see is that, at the beginning of the nineties, the extension of museums coincided almost completely with the behavior of the stock market. In the early nineties, therefore, I thought that every museum was going to grow and that this growth of museums would be to a scale that previously had not existed. This offered, for architects, a rich opportunity to do three things: to essentially modernize the museum, and, in doing so, to rethink the institutional architecture of museums. The second thing that we thought we could do was to introduce a museum infrastructure which previously it had never encountered. Thirdly, as to the possibility to experiment on a programmatic level with using the new scale of museums by combining different activities in a catalytic manner and as you can hear from the previous lecture there was very little original about it but this kind of program is what we have all more or less successfully kind of worked with. Now first I want to show you a number of projects none of them realized and to emphasize different aspects in each of them. In 1989, we designed a building in Karlsruhe, the Center for Media Technology (ZKM, Zentrum fr Kultur und Medien). It was a building that combined an unusual number of activities; it was the first time that a museum would emphatically address the issue of media as a main thing. What was particularly interesting about it was that it contained not only museum spaces but also spaces for production. It included a media laboratory, a sound laboratory, a stage, a theater etc. And what was also interesting: Karlsruhe is a very placid little city in southwestern Germany near the border to France. In

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 121 order to make the building visible, it was organized in a cube but also integrated with the railway system so that at least it would have a kind of blatant presence. Here [slide] you see the section, the section is very simple, it starts with the laboratories, then there is a theater and then there is a series of museum spaces interrupted by a small auditorium. What is unique when thinking about this space is that each theater has a stage tower and you see a zone, on the left of the building, where the stage tower actually extends this [slide] is the museum completely integrated with the railway system so that you go directly from one to the other without any transitional spaces. Another unique aspect is the theater technology, the theater tower, actually extended over the entire building, so that any technology used on the stage could also be used in the auditoriums, making, in a way, the building in its entirety, both museum, both laboratory, and theater at the same time. It also meant that the expensive technologies that we use in museums were available in any of its particular spaces. We also thought that, given the fact that museums would grow to an unusual and unprecedented scale, we could also use them to experiment in a technological and structural sense, and what you see here [slide] on the left is typical dividing floors and how we modified that and combined certain floors to become beams so that we had a museum that, although it consisted of superimposed spaces, also organized an alternation between completely free floors and floors that had structure as you see on the right. And that enabled us to create an interior where certain spaces were completely open and other spaces more classical. The project was cancelled because it was decided that it would be better to move into an existing building where the ZKM, as it is known, is accommodated now. MoMA | MoMA Inc.: It is an open secret that the presentation of art is not the only function of the contemporary museum. The very success of the institution has accrued additional interest and powers that require their own infrastructure.

Zentrum fr Kultur und Medien, Karlsruhe, 1989

Hermitage in Saint Petersburg

Proposal for Tate Modern, 1994

Malevitch's Black Square in the Hermitage

Plan for the Withney Expansion, 2002

Courtesy of OMA

122 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art In addition, a way visual culture is now infinitely disseminated increases the value of access to real things. This allure makes it crucial for institutions to guard, exploit, and wherever possible enhance their aura. Paradoxically, it raises the stakes for those who own real things to play a role in their dissemination, if not to control it. MoMA | Day/Night: More and more contemporary art needs spaces equipped for the interaction of human beings and technological implements, people and apparatus. Somehow, daylight is not conducive for this kind of interaction. The artificial withers under too much exposure video, computer, television, wiring, an entire panoply of virtual media takes real space. Where painting and sculpture are best revealed in conditions of (simulated) daylight, new art needs a darker, more artificial accommodation, an American night, illuminated by electronic haze, glowing and flickering. There is no escaping the inherent artificiality of the museum. MoMA | Storage vs. Viewing: A museum is an ambiguous treasure house of collections: part is on view and accessible, an often larger part is hidden in storage, aggressively inaccessible. The division inevitably corresponds to editing; in or out? The essential museum experience is based on selection (by unseen hands, for unarticulated criteria, for unknowable quantities). The museum is the only institution that systematically freezes its assets away. Within the extension the notion of storage should be emancipated. New forms of automated storage, visible storage, and robotic retrieval eliminate arguments of difficult access. MoMA: The second building I want to show you, and Ill show only limited aspects of each of the competitions that we did in this case, was the building for the Museum of Modern Art where we wanted to do a number of things. The first one was to address the institutional architecture of museums and openly admit that museums now had a particular scale and a particular complexity in terms of organization which entailed particular needs in terms of income (economics). All this really brought the quantum leap which enabled a new definition. What you see here [slide]: the museum consisted of a number of different things, to the left, this tower was what we called its corporate headquarters, MoMA Inc., what you see, a big, large box, that consisted of the museum itself, and then the kind of perimetral triangular structure that fitted exactly into the New York zoning law, where we had a series of transitional activities that were grafted onto the main program. In other words, what we had is and this diagram was important transition dollars (or funds) that were raised in the tower, should be filtered down to the curatorial departments, and supported the thinking of the curators, who would in turn activate the idle treasures in their respective storages, which are then propelled to the exhibition surfaces ... through the combination of dollars and thinking, it would be displayed in a new condition. In this new condition, we introduced a number of themes that we think are still important, namely how museums now always need to alternate between classical and new media and that its important to address t his issue and base any museum design on it. This might mean that the museums would no longer have a series of galleries which would offer more or less a kind of plausible accommodation for media. What was essential was to divide the museum frankly into day- and night zones and to use this day- and night condition as an enriching element in the entire experience. The main box subdivided into zones which could of course happen in any number of ways: you could also imagine an alternation of day and night as you ascended through the building. We also felt that a strong and consistent presence of modern media and here the issue of infrastructure becomes important could in some way permeate the incredible didacticism to the curatorial discourse where in many, many cases, the curator is a script writer who leaves little to the imagination, while in many contemporary technologies you could say that the viewer or the user is emancipated from this kind of guiding discourse. So, one important thing we needed to consider was storage which is one of the major issues of the modern museum. The storage issue also implies a key paradox because each museum claims that it needs to extend because a large part of its treasures are in storage. After the extension has taken place, however, the condition is still the same and still the vast majority of items remain in storage and there is no kind of fundamental thinking about the storage. What we proposed for MoMA, and that would be located in this [slide] triangular entity, is that each person could script his own trajectory and his own menu, which would describe his ideal viewing of the treasures of MoMA. Then the treasures would be located, and brought, by a robotic system to viewing rooms or cells, from the storage. This again engaged the general discourse of the museum with its own established logic, and bestowed the ability to rearrange on an individual basis and sequence the contents of the museum. Tate Modern: Quickly to the Tate [slide]. The Tate, as you know, and this is represented in the red line, red box, was an existing building, and that was a stroke of genius because the English can hate modern architecture, so that was basically camouflaged by stealth of gloomy architecture, and a very strong initial space and, as you know, in the Herzog & de Meuron scheme that space is used on its long access and divided in the whole, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, on a more or less solid building that consists of six levels of galleries. We had a different idea which was to build in the center a new building which left two void spaces on either side, one an accommodation for the public and the other one a deliberately unfinished part which we left there, we called it Virtual Tate. We were proposing that it would be open-air, and which we simply left undefined, either for later generations to complete it or for artists to work there or for the museum to potentially

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 123 extend. In order to mark the newness of the building we proposed to strip the tower from its brick so that it would look like a skeleton and in this central new building we decided to experiment with infrastructures. It is still a kind of huge surprise for me that since the nineteenth century we have the elevator, the escalator, and a whole series of circulation media which are actually defined to accommodate the masses; since the late part of the twentieth century, the masses have entered the museum but still the relation between those forms of circulation, those implements of circulation, and the museum itself has not been made. I think the museum is still too much, in our collective unconscious, a site of holiness to be violated by these modern elements. Yet the idea behind this Tate was that the museum can be enjoyed at different speeds. People who are serious about the museum can take it as slowly as they want, people who are frivolous about it and each of us knows this experience of going to a museum only to meet somebody or to eat or to go to a movie can take an elevator, and people who are in-between can take a system of escalators that sometimes stop in a room but sometimes simply goes through a room without stopping. So the museum, and this is a challenge I implicitly throw to any curator, all curators use the lip service and rhetoric of surprise and uncontrollability and unpredictability. Yet, we all know that museums are incredible, on the whole, control freaks and want trajectory to be highly scripted and that is an obvious reason why, in the end, these projects remained unbuilt. So, the central building was actually a stack of different boxes of architectures, each also with a different emphasis and a different nature; there were classical rooms, there were modern rooms etc. etc. and a series of devices that established a number of completely different trajectories to them, enabling an almost you all notice the diagram of this situation is the de Rive (ed. note: Rive Gauche vs Rive Droite) where they used the established entity of Paris and suggested a series of

124 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art different ways of circulating through them what program where the classical experience of the muwe tried to do was to exploit the big scale of the seum would remain intact, and what we called museum to also adopt the strategy of the de Rive. Experience Space which would be the spaces of circulation but also the commercial spaces, the pubWhitney Expansion: Now I talk about the Whitney. lic spaces, eating etc. Ironically, as you climb to the In the Whitney, we had the privilege to work in a top, a series of experiences that were clearly and very complicated situation. We had to of course openly not related to art were consumed by trying respect the Breuer building, and fortunately we a new way which is less a default mode but a more did. We also were asked to do a building that was active mode to turn experience not into a kind of compatible with maintaining the brownstones, subservient part that is necessary to maintain mubecause the Whitney judged that politically they seums, but into a part of equivalent strength. could not take down the brownstones, and therefore we needed to find a third element that had to Flick Collection: I want to end with two totally fit within the zoning envelope that exists on every different experiences that, for me, have to be read, New York block, but it had to be launched from a in a way, related to the failure of those earlier projminuscule footprint. So it was a building that, on ects not, I hasten to add, failure in intellectual the ground level, was tiny, and actually accommo- terms, but failure to find clients for the ideas. One dated a small site behind the brownstones. This is a private museum we were able to do for Friedrich site that would grow larger and loom over the Christian Flick. You probably all know him as an brownstones. important collector. We didnt simply want to see this as an opporHe wanted, at some point, to build a museum tunistic project with this political obligation to for his collection in Zurich. As you know, he has a maintain the brownstones but we actually thought complicated personal history because he is the that the brownstones could be a very important grandson of somebody who was involved in armaaddition to the Whitney, in the sense that it con- ments and industry for the Nazis, and he has retained a series of room-sized spaces that we fused to contribute to a fund for compensating the thought would be ideal in terms of creating an au- workers because of a complicated series of arguthentic experience that could work very well for ments in any case, he felt hesitant about doing particular paintings. And so, in a way, the diagram a museum, he also felt hesitant about returning to of the building was drawn around this concept. Germany, and decided to do it in a kind of indusAs it was designed, in the brownstones, we trial area of Zurich, Switzerland, certainly countwould have the art, essentially, before the War that ing on the complicity of the Swiss who, of course, would benefit from small rooms, then in the have largely benefited themselves from their neuBreuer, we would have essentially the American trality in the War. Ironically, as we will see later, art that, through its existence itself, sponsored and they chose the moment of Flicks discretion to triggered, to some extent, the larger pieces of Ex- undo their complicity and suddenly, heroically, pressionism or Minimalism. Further, from a lobby kicked the grandson of a Nazi out of their country in the middle, series of accommodation would but thats another story. be launched for more contemporary art and more Anyway, there were many reasons for Flick to be experimental art, media etc. etc. So, actually what modest and to not want to do a traditional musewas a political obligation became the diagram for um, so what we devised for him was actually a the whole thing. house, and this is where, I think, we are also living We went further there, and its not unlike what at a very interesting moment where the private is we just heard about the new Walker, and clearly so dominant and that is certainly also a direct result separated two kinds of programs; the exhibition of this kind of curve with which I started the presentation, it is also the curve of the reigning and the gaining of the private on the public. So we wanted to create something more intimate which could be a house, a house where Flick lived but that was dedicated to his collection and that was modeled on the reinterpretation of a series of spaces that are essential for every house in other words: every house has a kitchen, every house has a bathroom, every house has a bedroom etc. So we took the repertoire of a typical house, of course rather grandiose, and then interpreted the private house as a series of spaces each reinterpreting those typologies and then we used this grid to incorporate some elements of his collection. So there you all know the Bruce Naumann piece that Bruce Naumann piece became the core of one of the rooms. So, instead of a museum with all its obligations to the public, this private museum or private house seemed to be an interesting typology, smaller and, therefore, more modest but also more eccentric and more precise in accommodating the conditions of the works of art. So here you see all those kinds of fragments assembled, an architecture to some extent that completely determined by the collection itself in which Flick could live, if he wanted to, alone, and where there was a separate space for arts, guests, and visitors. Hermitage Museum: I want to end with a project we are currently doing which is, in a certain way, the opposite of all the projects I have been showing but which certainly could not have happened without them, because contrary to the kind of years of boom-and-bust that we have lived in the West, there is one country that has been kind of reasonably stable and that is Russia. And what I want to talk about now is the Hermitage in terms of its extension. It started in 1750, it remained stable, then a new building was added in 1850, it remained stable under three regimes, Czars and Communism and the market regime, and only now it is kind of thinking about its next extension. But this extension is not a new building but it is kind of an inclusion within the system of the Hermitage of an existing building. You see the Hermitage on

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 125 the water that is the Hermitage as it is, and this new building on the right is going to be appropriated, as a part of the Hermitage system. And our architectural office which in the early nineties was simply an architectural office called OMA and which kind of through all this experience in the mid-nineties figured out that it was perhaps better to separate thinking and building in a more classical way because the combination of thinking and building that we had tried inevitably was controversial. For this reason, we started a separate branch called AMO the image of OMA this will be a project simply done by our thinking branch so its a project purely where we are dedicated to abstaining from architecture. I want to say a number of things about the Hermitage. Its fascinating, its the biggest museum, and while the Hermitage has the largest number of works of art, it has the lowest number of visitors. And this is for me an absolutely exceptional luxury with which it can do more things than anybody else. It also inhabits spaces that were not considered as a museum and it has never had the money or the inclination, I believe to modernize. And what if youre not an architect obliged to build you can then see is how this effect of this misfit, how this non-modernization and the kind of sparseness of its inhabitation actually work and what does it do? The most compelling thing for us was that perhaps it is all wrong in terms of display, it is all wrong in terms of curatorial kind of strategies, but nevertheless the impact of the whole is unbelievably strong. And I would say that this image [slide] is for me the most shocking one and for all of you I am sure it is incredibly shocking because it is one of the most famous paintings of the twentieth century, also one of the most important because it is not so much about fame but importance: Malevichs Black Square which is hung there shockingly accessible, without protection, in daylight, lit by fluorescent light, between kitsch Russian curtains. Nevertheless, it enables an intimacy of confrontation which I think is stronger and more authentic and more direct than in any of the con-

126 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art temporary museums that have been realized and that is of course very for us exciting, but for you alarming. Since we are no longer necessarily committed to modernization since we are not obliged to be architects, so what we decided to do and how we kind of framed the issue. The Hermitage is twelve thousand rooms, we add eight hundred rooms to it, here [slide] are the lengths of walls, the different color-codes are different kind of historical regimes so certain rooms are monuments, other rooms can be changed, so over this entity have to be kind of distributed three and a half million pieces of art so it becomes more a kind of quantitative experience. So the very first impulse has been and this is kind of a project not by me to cover the courtyards which create atriums, the second impulse triggered by Tom Krentz, who wanted to involve the Guggenheim in this effort and who kind of looked around is where to create in the two thousand rooms space for American art. Because all of these spaces of course are small, of course there are museum spaces some of which are really huge, but in order to be contemporary, space for American art is essential and space for the motorcycle shows. But we pursued a different tactic and started to look at the building itself of which certain parts are kept in a wonderful, sublime way but others are decrepit and almost ruined, others supporting almost Kabakov kind of environments, the former remnants of Soviet Communism. We then decided what happens if you inhabit the museum as it is and refuse modernization and, [slide] this was one of the rooms I simply found, a display, not really a display, on wrapping paper, of sculpture I have never seen such a density, on one square meter of wrapping paper, five hundred sculptures about religion, military, romanticism, sex, animals in a totally unedited density but, with a kind of rawness of emotion that was also incredible. So we thought, of course there is space for the motorcycle show and in this Napoleonic service of gold it doesnt need American space. So, what happens if you are simply using the most powerful and valuable art to rehabilitate a space not by physical means but simply by curating? That may also be a form of curating that is also possible. And finally we were asking perhaps if you have eight hundred rooms, one strategy to create the most compelling museum of the twenty-first century would be to ask eight artists but not necessarily artists, I think in weak years you can also accommodate different disciplines, you can even make it a kind of contest between disciplines eight artists every year, and give them a room, and you can repeat it for a hundred years and then, at the end, you clearly have the most compelling museum of the century because you simply have the accumulation and all of that without any intervention of contemporary architecture leave alone architecture for art. Thank you. Presentation | Hans Ulrich Obrist

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 127 Hans Ulrich Obrist: Good morning, I wanted to show you, first of all, a very small museum because I think we have been talking about the bigness of museums, about extensions of museums and I think it is important not to forget the notion of small museums. I have just spoken before with Kathy about the fact how much we love for example these tiny spaces in the Boijmans Museum in Rotterdam. Smallness can also be related to in terms of homes or museums with a very interesting example of a house-museum where actually an experience of work is enriched by very different circumstances where you have more of a conversation situation, than a singular viewing experience. Here I am referring to the Soanes Museum in London, the Barragan House in Mexico, or the Lorca House in Granada, and many other examples could be quoted about this whole idea of the house-museum. Big and Small: I wanted to show you here an even smaller museum, which is a museum I founded together with the German artist Hans-Peter Feldmann, which is the Nano Museum, its 2 x 3 inches and it was a kind of a traveling museum and it unfortunately then disappeared because Douglas Gordon lost it in a bar in Glasgow so you see also that a museum can die, that it can have a limited lifespan. I wanted to show you here one of the last exhibitions of the Nano Museum 3876 which was by English urbanist Cedric Price, and Im going to read to you, as an explanation, the short text Cedric wrote for his Nano Museum exhibition: If then we represent our earth, as a little ball of 1-inch diameter, then the sun would be a big globe 9 feet across and 323 yards away. That is about 1/5 of a mile or 4 or 5 minutes of walking. And then, to measure it with cups of coffee, which maybe for this morning conference might be appropriate, Cedric pointed out that this corresponds to 3876 cups of coffee. So obviously this whole idea bringing into consideration small museums doesnt necessarily mean being against big museums, but it raises

Nano Museum Concept Hans-Peter Feldmann/Hans Ulrich Obrist Exhibition 3876 By Cedric Price/2 x 3 inches Lost in a bar in Glasgow by Douglas Gordon

Utopia Station Installation view Haus der Kunst, Munich, 2004 Created for Venice Biennale, 2003 Curated by Hans Ulrich Obrist, Rirkrit Tiravanija and Molly Nesbit

Courtesy of Hans Ulrich Obrist

128 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art the question that if we have big museums, how can we preserve within them the conditions of housemuseums discussed earlier. How we can actually introduce, reintroduce, or re-inject the notion of smallness into bigger conditions. And that leads to the question of complexity which I would like to address here. I think after having whole discussions now about the exterior sides of museums the topic of our discussion which was all about the faade I think it is also very relevant to talk about interior complexity, we could call it a new Merzbau (ed. note : Kurt Schwitterss Merzbau in Hannover,1933) condition, which will bring up urgent questions in the next few years about the future of museums. The situation of museums is obviously very complex and I think when we try to work out how to deal with this complexity, it is important not to reduce our reflections to one single model but to study several different ones, historical models, but also contemporary models, and to take an experimental approach with regard to this complexity. One of the real threats of globalization is the homogenization of the world of museums, and it is urgent to actually generate a situation which is receptive to interlocking spaces or bridges between old and new exemplified by Rems work with the Hermitage but also keeping in mind the notion of acceleration and deceleration, moments of speed and moments of slowness, where you have zones of noise and where you have zones of silence, where you have actually also negotiations between the private and public space. The poet and writer douard Glissant developed his visionary museum, which became the first museum of Martinique, based on his idea of museum as an archipelago. For him, most new museums that have opened in recent years are too much like continents (rock solid and imposing), as opposed to the archipelago (welcoming and sheltering). In douard Glissants words, The idea of a nonlinear time implicit in this idea, or in this concept, the coexistence of several time zones would of course allow for a great variety of different contact zones as well. Contact Zone: Meeting Place: It was this notion of contact zones which leads us to what I wanted to show you of Utopia Station [slide], which was a contact zone between the museum and the city and which became a project that I co-curated with Rirkrit Tiravanija and Molly Nesbit and for the last Biennale. Today, the project has evolved into a kind of a learning system, after having been very horizontal in Venice, to occupying a receptive zone which can at any moment be animated. In view of this, we decided, for the presence of Utopia Station at Haus der Kunst in Munich to develop much more of a program. One of the center pieces is actually a vertical tower, which is the biggest construction Rirkrit Tiravanija has ever built which completely breaks the monumentality of the former Ehrenhalle (ed. note: designed as a speaking platform for Adolf Hitler). Its actually not a building but a passage that one can walk through, within zones for projections, light zones, and dark zones. The space is actually programmed in a different way every day, as an on-going creation by Rirkrit. It, however, involves many artists who did not contribute artworks but much more structural elements. Rirkrit had invited, for example, M & M to develop a whole layer of posters, the oleanna pavilion erected by Martha Rosler and her collective or the Sonic House where all the performances take place, with round-shaped benches that are triggers of conversation by Liam Gillick. This also has to do with something we had actually experienced in Paris earlier at the Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris where I worked as a curator where through several monographic exhibitions, above all with Phillip Parreno and then with Anri Sala, both artists have really actually worked on this idea of the exhibition as a time code, and the exhibition as a program. One of the most important things in a discussion about museums is the idea to learn from artists and most of the things I know about museums I have always learned from artists. The process of working on this exhibition with Parreno was very interesting because he developed an exhibition where he showed mostly video work but he did not want the space to become a dark space. He, therefore, developed all kinds of zones which would be time coded, programmed differently over time so the viewing of the exhibition would be different each time one came into contact with it. Anri Sala dealt with the same problem by developing a situation which was a cross between dawn and dusk; it was sort of like crpuscule live. The whole space was programmed so that at any moment of the day you saw both the space and could see the work. These ideas became, somehow, the point of departure for Munich, to develop this program. Dynamic Memory Space Change: A last issue Id like to mention is triggered by Cedric Price: the notion of dynamic memory. I think it would be perilous to imagine the future of the museum, we cannot ignore the past history of museums and exhibition practices. Museums have always been paradoxical things, at once solid, immobile, historically rooted, and also preoccupied with the acts of collecting, of storage, and also preservation. At the same time, they are potential laboratories for experimentations, bastions for reflections and change, loci of dynamic memory, and also vital archives for the future. Looking closely at the paradox of this institution, the museum, also implies countering the prevalent amnesia about museum and exhibition history which allows us to reconnect the museums possible future to its past and over the threshold of the present. And here we could mention some amazing tool boxes, or moments like for example Sandberg at the Stedelijk Museum in Amsterdam, we could mention Alexander Dorner in the twenties in with the visionary Hanover museum where El Lissitzky played such an important role. What these models have in common is that there is a very strong proximity to and collaboration with artists and architects in relation to these museums. Artists and architects felt at home in these museums, and went there all the time and not only for exhibitions. So, referring back to the dynamic memory idea leads us to

ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art | 129 Cedric Price, the late visionary architect and urbanist from whom I learned a lot about redefining the museum and to his visionary Fun Palace project of 1961 which was very much a point of departure for Utopia Station, which is a project that responds to the necessity to prevent institutions from sitting permanently and concretely in place. Prices ideas envisioned a new cultural center for the twenty-first century which would actually be concerned with relations with distortion of time. While the museum has traditionally been seen and often presented itself as solid, stable, immobile, historical, and so on, ideas from practitioners such as Price pivot on chance, alternate temporalities, flexibility, uncertainty, games, change, process, and also feedback ideas which introduce radically different possibilities for the museum. Prices Fun Palace proposes a cultural institution where the unexpected actually can happen, even programs the unexpected to happen. It is the model of institution that could respond to an uncertain environment, and in this sense one could even trace parallels from John Cages Music of Uncertainty in relation to the museum. I would like to conclude here with a quote by Cedric Price which I think summarizes many, many of his ideas because, two years ago, Cedric tried to rethink the Fun Palace for the new century and revisited this idea: A twenty-first-century museum will utilize calculated uncertainty and conscious incompleteness to produce a catalyst for invigorating change whilst always producing the harvest of the quiet eye.

130 | ABC | ABMB04 | Architecture for Art Conclusion | Terence Riley We are running a little bit long and I think everybody has probably enjoyed it as much as I have and I dont regret at all that were probably not going to have a real discussion and so I talked to the other participants and what I think Ill do is try to not so much draw things together as to propose maybe some ongoing questions that can be drawn out of this proposition. I spent a lot of time these last two days drawing up questions and following up questions that were based on my projection of how this conversation would go and then the conversation of course always has to make making generalizations about who you are speaking with well, Rem will say this and then Hans Ulrich will say this and Kathy will say that and, as usual, all that scripting doesnt quite work. And what I am realizing is I have a lot of notes about questions that arent particularly more relevant than what has been said. One of the things that makes it difficult to jumpstart one of these conversations is that, it seems to me, the world of museums has moved to a state of hybridness and when Hans Ulrich was talking about the Fun Palace as being a concept that was created in response to institutions that were deemed to be unchanging, permanent, and solid, what is interesting to me is that it is pretty clear that from the architectural side, from the curatorial side, and the museum, there is no longer this commitment or this belief in any rock-solid institution and much of the discussion already centers on the hybridization and, quite frankly, its very hard to create a polemical discussion about hybrids versus hybrids, we have come to a quite different place. But some of the things I would like to bring up and leave open as questions that could be followed up and thought about and maybe even responded to at length elsewhere ... I think the most ideological position up here today was talking about Cedric Price, without a doubt. Cedrics intense commitment to temporality, to the event-nature of culture and therefore the architecture that surrounded it, makes it the most sort of arguable kind of polemic. Whats interesting to me, though, is two things: one, are there conditions that Cedric was reacting to in terms of culture at large that still exist, and, two, one of the issues I have with Cedric and would like to leave as a kind of question is: whereas the seduction of this endless reinvention of culture over and over in every single instance and every day, is quite beautiful and has its own logic, there is also a question of inevitably this system is going to produce some event or some thing of unmistakable importance. It might have the kind of random structure that we saw the Hermitage being sort of destructured into a series of either competing or complimentary planes, inevitably this randomness also produces something that is great and is important. I hope Im not sounding too much like a curator, but what mechanism should there be for retaining this strategy? I am not just saying this Biennale was a better one than that one, if a Biennale can be considered as an event but when something unbelievably important happens that is recognized as such how does the retaining of such events affect the institution? Does it contaminate this idea of endless change so much that it is actually dangerous in a certain sense? Then Rem talked about the relative relationship between finances and museums, just a thought to leave you with: in some recent research I came upon an unverified fact at this point that there are only two museums in the world that are able to support themselves from the ticket box office, and one is the Uffizi in Florence and one is the Dal Museum in Figueres and they have two things in common: they dont do any temporary exhibitions and they dont collect any art! If you want to bring the market in, its a kind of a set-back to realize that the only two museums that really stand on their own are ones that avoid completely what Price was talking about, change. Also there is no role for a curator in these cases, because they dont collect any art. So thats a kind of interesting fact. The thing about bigness Rem of course wrote the book on bigness bigness, I think, is implied even in expansions of any size, one of the things I find interesting: as much as we talk about in this museum boom, the growth of museums, usually within museums and often in the public there is at least an equal reaction against growth, and, quite frankly, a lot of these projects are often fraught with the fact that part of the institution is committed to the notion of growth and other parts of the institution are actually and explicitly committed to, we heard the words, intimacy, smallscale experience etc. What this reminds us of is that, despite the last little fact about finances, museums do inhabit a very strange place vis--vis our culture, if museums follow the patterns of all the other institutions in western culture were talking about banks, hospitals, financial brokerage houses etc., this museum boom would have been replaced by a series of mergers, acquisitions, and consolidations and you would have the MoMAGuggenheim-Whitney, and you would have the Hermitage-Pushkin, etc. This is the undeniable logic of the rest of the capital world and the museums have retained their identity only through huge subventions from individuals that have an interest in some instances in the notion of intimacy and smallness but also as a kind of aggressive way to protect identity, I suppose, and ultimately ideology. That notwithstanding, it still is curious to me to see how museums in general exist as a kind of independent asteroids in this otherwise wellknown Milky Way. Anyway, I think there is the opportunity to have some casual conversations and I promise well relinquish the room. Thank you. Thank you, Terry. Thank you, Rem, Cathy, and Hans. Wed like you to go to the speakers, have some chats with them.

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ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle | 139 Art Basel Conversations | Sunday, December 5, 2005 Art Collectors Lounge, Miami Beach Convention Center

TRANSCRIPT | THE CURATOR'S CIRCLE CREATING IDENTITY

What defines the identity of an art institution? What lessons can be learned from corporate identity and branding? How does the audience affect identity and vice versa? What counts most in defining identity architecture? Geography? History? Who creates the identity of an art institution?

SPEAKERS | ROSA MARTINEZ ANN PHILBIN LINDA SHEARER SHEENA WAGSTAFF Host | IVO COSTA MESQUITA

140 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle

Rosa Martinez Co-director Of The Venice Biennale 2005; Barcelona, Spain Rosa Martinez is an art critic and independent curator based in Barcelona, where she received her degree in art history. She is currently artistic director of the Arsenale for the Venice Biennale 2005 and she serves as chief curator at the Istanbul Museum of Modern Art. She is also curator for the 1st Moscow Biennale and associate curator at Magasin 3 (Stockholm). She has organized many solo and group exhibitions in museums, art centers, historical buildings, and outdoor spaces. She has developed her career mainly in the field of international biennials from the Mediterranean Biennial (Barcelona, 19881991) and Manifesta 1 (Rotterdam, 1996) to the Spanish Pavilion at the 50th Venice Biennale in 2003. She has also been artistic director of the 5th International Istanbul Biennial (1997), the 3rd SITE Santa Fe (Santa Fe, New Mexico, U.S.A., 1999), and the Biennial EVA 2000 (Limerick, Ireland). In 2000 she co-curated the 2nd Pusan Biennial (Korea) and in 2003 she was international advisor for the 2nd Echigo-Tsumari Triennial (Japan). She was a member of the international juries of the 48th Venice Biennale (1999) and the 8th Cairo Biennale (2001). Among her most significant projects in Spain are the direction of the curatorial training program, Passion and Ennui in Contemporary Art (19961997), the curatorship of two seasons of Sala Montcada (1991 92/1997) and the solo exhibition of Nikos Navridis (2004), all for La Caixa Foundation. She was also cocurator of Trans Sexual Express: A Classic for the Third Millenium for the Santa Monica Art Center (Barcelona, 2001) and from 1998 to 2002 she curated the International Project Rooms at ARCO, the Contemporary Art Fair in Madrid. She has recently organized the solo show of Pilar Albarracn at the Reales Atarazanas (Seville, 2004). [http://personal.telefonica. terra.es/web/rosadevenir/] [www.labiennal.org] Ann Philbin Director and curator, Hammer Museum of Art and Culture; Los Angeles, Calif., USA Since becoming director of the Hammer Museum in January 1999, Ann Philbin has increased the museums public profile by instituting a dynamic exhibition program for contemporary art and expanding the range of public programs offered. She also initiated a building renovation to provide a venue better suited for these activities. The building project, designed by Michael Maltzan Architecture, will begin with the construction of a 300-seat theater made possible by a generous gift from Audrey Wilder. In the past five years Philbin has curated and co-curated a number of exhibitions at the Hammer including Lee Bontecou: A Retrospective; International Paper; Drawn from Artists Collections; Likeness: Recent Portrait Drawings by David Hockney and Lee Mullican: Selected Drawings, 19451980, which received the International Association of Art Critics award. Under Philbins auspices, the Hammer has also hosted shows from other institutions like the Walker Art Centers exhibition The Last Picture Show: Artists Using Photography, 19601982, curated by Douglas Fogle, or the Museum of Modern Arts exhibition The Un-Private House, curated by Terence Riley. Philbin has instituted the ongoing Hammer Projects, a series of contemporary exhibitions and installations featuring local, national, and international artists. Prior to her arrival at the Hammer Museum, Philbin was director of The Drawing Center in New York for nine years. Prior to her position at The Drawing Center, Philbin organized large-scale public art exhibitions such as The New Urban Landscape, New York City. She was also director of the Curt Marcus Gallery and, previously, the curator of The Ian Woodner Family Collection of old master drawings. [www.hammer.ucla.edu] Linda Shearer Alice and Harry Weston Director of the Contemporary Art Center of Cincinnati; Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Linda Shearer comes to the CAC from the Williams College Museum of Art in Massachusetts, where she had been director since 1989. Prior to that time, Ms. Shearer was the curator of painting and sculpture at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. She has been executive director of Artists Space, a non-profit gallery for new art, and associate curator at the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, both in New York. Combined with her broad range of experie nce and skills, Ms. Shearer brings to the CAC a strong network of national constituents, having served on a variety of boards and committees for arts organizations throughout the United States. Her many affiliations include the board of trustees of the American Federation of the Arts; the advisory committee for the Skowhegan School of Painting and Sculpture; and in 2003 she served as chair for the Philadelphia Exhibition Initiative. A native of Long Island, Ms. Shearer received her bachelor of arts from Sarah Lawrence College, Bronxville, New York, and has taught contemporary art and theory at Williams College and The School of Visual Arts in New York City. [www.contemporaryartscenter.org] Sheena Wagstaff Chief curator, director of Exhibitions & Display, Tate Modern; London, England Sheena Wagstaff has been chief curator and director of Exhibitions & Display at Tate Modern since 2001. She joined Tate in 1998 has dead of Exhibitions & Displays at Tate Britain. Exhibitions at Tate Britain included Mona Hatoum (2000) and the first exhibition in a series of contemporary responses to the work of J. M. W. Turner beginning with Darren Almond (2001). Since 2001, Sheena has initiated and led an extensive program of major exhibitions at Tate Modern, curating Barnett Newman (2002) and Eva Hesse (2002) for presentation at Tate Modern, followed by Edward Hopper (2004). She has conceived new programming initiatives including the Untitled series of contemporary artists projects as well as a series encompassing live art and performance. From 1993 to 1998, Sheena was director of Exhibitions, Collections & Education at the Frick Art Museum, Pittsburgh, where she curated a program of historic and contemporary exhibitions, including Confronting the Present (1994) and Per Kirkeby (1995). She served on the Museums Panel for the Pennsylvania Council on the Arts, Harrisburg (1996) and was cultural leader for Leadership Pittsburgh 1994/95. Previously she worked at the Whitechapel Art Gallery, London, and the Museum of Modern Art, Oxford, and was the first British participant in the Whitney Museums Independent Study Program. Sheena is a board member of the International Committee for Museums and Collections of Modern Art (CIMAM) and is on the Advisory Board of the Mattress Factory, Pittsburgh. She is currently curating a Jeff Wall exhibition at Tate Modern for autumn 2005. [www.tate.org.uk/modern/default.shtm]

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Ivo Costa Mesquita Independent curator; So Paulo, Brazil Ivo Mesquita is an independent curator. Since 1996 he has been visiting professor at the Center for Curatorial Studies, Bard College, and curator for Projeto Octgono at Pinacoteca do Estado, in So Paulo after 2003. Mesquita was a researcher and assistant curator (198088) and director (19992000) at the So Paulo Bienal Foundation; director, Museu de Arte Moderna, So Paulo (200102). Curator, Jorge Guinle, 20th So Paulo Bienal (1989); Desire in the Academy, 18471916, Pinacoteca do Estado, So Paulo (1991); Cartographies, Winnipeg Art Gallery (1993); Daniel Senise: The Enlightening Gaze, Museum of Contemporary Art, Monterrey, Mexico (1994); Body and Space, Museu de Arte de So Paulo (1995); Stills: Works from the Marieluise Hessel Collection, CCS-Bard College, (1997); Alair Gomes, fotgrafo, Museu da Imagem e do Som, So Paulo (1999); and Iigo Manglano-Ovalle: Climate, Fundacin la Caixa, Madrid, 2003; Voyage to Dakar: Three artists from the Amricas, VI Dakar BiennaleDakArt 2004. Co-curator, Roteiros , 24th So Paulo Bienal (1998); inSITE97 and inSITE2000, San Diego and Tijuana; and F[r]icciones, Museo Reina Sofia, Madrid (2000). Publications include Leonilson: use lindo, eu garanto (1997), Daniel Senise: ela que no est (1998), F[r]icciones (with Adriano Pedrosa, 2001) and catalogue essays. Lives and works in So Paulo and Rhinebeck, NY. [www.bard.edu]

142 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle Introduction | Ivo Mesquita Good morning, I would like to welcome all of you to this last morning session of this conversation series at the Art Basel Miami Beach Art Show. Ill be moderating this session and first of all I would like to introduce the speakers of this morning: Sheena Wagstaff, Ann Philbin, Linda Shearer, and Rosa Martinez. The topic of this morning is Creating Identity and it refers to how curatorial practice could contribute and help in building an identity, an institutional identity mostly, in terms of cultural politics and social meaning. Our first speaker will be Ann Philbin, shes the director and curator of the Hammer Museum in Los Angeles. Presentation | Ann Philbin Hammer Museum: Thank you. I thought Id start by giving you a very brief history of the Hammer Museum if some of you are not familiar with it. Its in its nascent stages as an institution. Founded in 1990 by Armand Hammer, who was the head of Occidental Petroleum, the Hammer is located in the corporate headquarters of Occidental Petroleum in West Los Angeles. When the museum opened, it was met with a mixed response from the cultural community of Los Angeles. Armand Hammer was a controversial figure. Although he had originally intended for his collection to go to LACMA, he changed his mind for various reasons and built his own museum much to the dismay of many in the community. Hammer died three weeks after his museum opened and without him as a guiding force the institution floundered for several years with no identity or clear mission. In 1995, UCLA was invited by Oxy and the Hammer Foundation to become the manager of the institution. To this day the Hammer is still governed by the troika of Occidental Petroleum, UCLA, and the Hammer Foundation quite a complex and odd governing structure which informs its identity issues. When I arrived to become the director in 1999, the identity of the museum was still very confusing to people. Many people had no idea what the Hammer was, what its mission was or what its intentions were. The name of the museum was problematic in itself UCLA at the Armand Hammer Museum of Art and Cultural Center an awkward name that begged for branding and clarity. So we began the exercise of establishing identity with an inside-out approach. Within the first year of my tenure we instituted a badly needed building renovation project. Although the building was still fairly new, its purpose had changed radically since its inception as a vanity museum to one whose mission was to serve a university and a larger audience of Los Angeles. Redesigning the physical premises allowed us an incredible opportunity for looking very hard at our purpose and our mission. Although the renovation project has still not come to fruition, it offered a very useful series of exercises which were choreographed through our architect, Michael Maltzan, and graphic designer and branding guru, Bruce Mau. This decidedly holistic process began with the staff. Bruce and Michael conducted exercises such as assigning numbers one to ten (ten representing a positive association and one a negative) to phrases and words like high culture, liberal, establishment, archive, traditional, think tank, entertainment, entrepreneurial, and so on. What we discovered was that many of the staff were assigning tens and nines to words like high culture, establishment, and traditional whereas others of us including myself were assigning tens and nines to entrepreneurial and think tank, so we were on completely different pages. With this realization we began the process of defining our aspirations. I brought a few new people on to the staff, Russell Ferguson, a curator who came from MOCA, and James Elaine, a curator who worked with me at the Drawing Center in New York. While some of the existing staff did not choose to come along, most were really excited by the journey and transition to a different kind of institution. We then we began an audit process anonymous interviews of about forty or fifty key people in the community (civic leaders, museum colleagues, artists, funders, cultural figures, students, and university professors) to find out what their impressions of the museum were. This was a demanding and complex process we hired professional consultants to execute it but it ended up being extremely useful to us. We learned that one of the biggest problems we had was that we were invisible, literally. When people on the street corner in front of our building were asked, What do you know about the Hammer Museum where is it and what is it?, about 90 percent would say some variation of I have no idea where it is, Ive heard of it but I have no idea what it does. It was clear that we had our work cut out for us. Incidentally, we solved this problem

ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle | 143 by bringing the art to the street and subverting the corporate lobby of building. The lobby has a very large wall, which is viewable from the street apparently, the busiest vehicular corner west of the Mississippi. In the last five years we have invited twenty different artists to execute temporary large-scale wall drawings and paintings which have visually branded the building and signaled the presence of contemporary art as part of its core identity. From the beginning we also started with the very fundamental, core concept that our primary audience other than the university students was artists. By that I mean the larger creative community of LA filmmakers, writers, musicians, as well as visual artists. Its a building process but the idea is that, if you start with a focus on the artists, then the art world comes, the dealers, the collectors, the philanthropists, then eventually you get to the larger public. But it is a deep and slow process quite the opposite of a marketing and PR strategy and results in a truly devoted audience that feels ownership in the institution. Another step in the clarification of our identity was to find a niche in this community that needed to be filled. As you know, we have terrific institutions in Los Angeles, MOCA, LACMA, the Getty, Santa Monica Museum of Art, but the truth is, unlike New York, there are very few alternative spaces, very few non-profit spaces where emerging artists are a focus. So, we saw this great opportunity in this particular area and we started a project series called Hammer Projects, which has really had a huge impact for the artists community and our identity within it. The trick for us was not to lose the audience that loves our permanent collections and the more historically focussed exhibitions. Striking a balance between the very new and the old has become a very strong feature of our programs and the cross-pollination and education of those two audiences has been a deliberate strategy that has worked surprisingly well. The fact that we are a university museum is really important to us in the sense that we represent the Research & Development of the arts for the

144 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle university. So we describe our work with words like laboratory, discovery, and risk-taking those are all-important things for us. We try to stay very nimble, very responsive, and we try not to be afraid of making mistakes. So the notions of discovery and expecting the unexpected are things we value more than presenting a major survey of a blue chip artist or another Impressionist exhibition. More in keeping with our approach was a monographic exhibition of Robert Overby, an artist who was very influential in the sixties and seventies in Los Angeles, who died in his late forties with very little exposure or collecting of his work in his lifetime. But many, many artists in Los Ang eles of the next generation credited him with being a great inspiration. It was a very important exhibition for us and sort of started us on a certain course. The Lee Bontecou show that we organized with the MCA in Chicago probably was a tipping point for us. Again, an artist who hadnt been seen in thirty years who was rediscovered and recontextualized in the canon of art history. Taking a fresh look at artists we think we know from Drer, to Milton Avery, to Christian Marclay also defines our approach. Absolutely essential to this process of identity making have been our public programs which we have ongoing at the museum about four nights a week. They are as essential to our mission as a cultural center as our exhibitions. We have three separate curated literature series, a music series, and a film series, in addition to a conversation series which matches unlikely combinations of people Cathy Opie and Dorothy Allison, Brian Grazer and Malcom Gladwell, Chuck D and Margaret Cho are some examples. We also have active engagement with political activists and public figures that have little or nothing to do with art. We are honest about our point of view as a progressive institution and although that does not please everyone it is part and parcel of establishing a clear identity. In the end, I think no matter how engaging and alive our programs are, being sophisticated about public relations and marketing is essential. The cultural arena is highly competitive. Although a survey we did showed us that word of mouth was still by far the predominant manner that people found out about our programs, I am also a firm believer in the power of a well-choreographed public relations campaign even for mediumsized institutions like ours with small marketing and advertising budgets. You cant pay for coverage of bad programs, but if your content is strong a focus on editorial coverage with writers you respect can go a very long way. Thank you. Ivo Mesquita: Thank you very much. Our next speaker is Sheena Wagstaff and she is chief curator and head of exhibitions at the Tate Modern in London. Presentation | Sheena Wagstaff Tate Modern: Like the other speakers, I regard the questions for us this morning as stimuli for further questions as opposed to answers. Im at a slightly different stage with regard to Tate Modern than the other speakers and Im not interested in giving you a lengthy history of Tate Modern because most of you are probably aware of it even if you have not yet visited it. Im much more interested in touching on a few issues that have arisen over the last four-and-a-half years since Tate Moderns founding in 2000. As a corollary to this point, I think forums like this are a fantastic opportunity to go beyond mere information sharing to the real possibility of discussing ideas. I want to start with an image, a very characteristic image, of Tate Modern seen from the River Thames, almost as if we are on the steps of Saint Pauls, in a sort of direct line between God and culture. Cited as a huge success by and for the British Government, Tate Modern had a sizeable Millennium Commission grant of 50 million pounds although nothing like the astonishing 628 million pounds with which the British Government created the so-called Millennium Dome, a monumental failure of a project that still exists on the outskirts of London as a kind of large white elephant. Tate Modern is of course the first museum of modern and contemporary art in the United Kingdom, so therefore was long awaited and much needed. The first years attendance, which we had anticipated was going to be about 3 million people, ended up as an astonishing 5.3 million people. Predictions were that the attendance would fall the received wisdom is always that there is a rate of attrition after opening but actually it hasnt happened. It has remained steady: between 3.7 and 4.4 million visitors per year. As a point of reference, to give you a sense of the magnitude of that number of people coming through this institution: a couple of weeks ago in New York, at the opening of the Museum of Modern Art, there was a total of 18,000 people who went through on the opening day. It was also, of course,

ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle | 145 a free day. We have at least 20,000 people on one day over the weekend during the normal course of events; on mega weekends during, for instance, the Matisse-Picasso show, we totaled about 50,000 people together over a Saturday and Sunday. Thats a huge amount of people to accommodate even in a large building. The audience for contemporary arts in Britain has grown exponentially. The British may appear to hate modern architecture as Rem Koolhaas said yesterday, but they sure have an ongoing fascination with modern art. This is Picassos Three Dancers from 1925. Like every other museum, we have many iconic works that are beloved by our public, and I think these are increasingly becoming the means by which our institution is identified. The new practice, however, of sharing works between institutions, of which I am very supportive, gives this a different kind of resonance. I am interested in whether this idea of a visual identity associated with iconic artworks, as opposed to architectural icons, will actually change over time. Like the Hammer Museum, we underwent a very detailed branding exercise. Ours was with Wolff Olins, another sort of guru-like organization: the idea was to try to bring together the four Tates Tate Britain and Tate Modern being the two larger institutions in London, with Tate Liverpool and Tate St. Ives in the north and southwest of Britain respectively. The task was to bring them together within a kind of federation or family of museums, without sacrificing their individual identities. It is an extensive process were actually still undergoing. But the dilemma we currently face is that weve become so popular we are now a victim of our success. The sheer volume of people includes many first-time visitors who are often unfamiliar with how to behave in a gallery. It is true to say that sometimes their response to an artwork may jeopardize its safety, at the same time as sometimes compromising other visitors viewing comfort. So while we are attracting an enviable, large, and very diverse audience, it has in turn dictated how we plan and install our exhibitions and

146 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle displays. So, for instance with the Eva Hesse exhibition, which we had the great fortune to host in London, I had to work out how to place these beautiful works of sculpture in a way that was true to the artists intentions, but which also protected them. With an impossible choice between a rope barrier which acts visually as a false perimeter to any of Hesses pieces and a low platform which removed the works from sitting directly on the floor as Hesse intended them, I chose the latter as the less intrusive option, although it was still extremely unsatisfactory. So you see, we are challenged by the fact that the volume of people exploring our galleries necessitates a compromise to the way that they see the work. Another issue is that the structural fabric of the place is suffering enormously: from the constant breakdown of the elevators to the huge amounts of tissue paper daily used in the restrooms. We had to get a sponsor for the toilet rolls! Tate Modern has become a destination. It has become a sort of phenomenon on its own terms. Its become a social space where people come to hang out, either in the space of the Turbine Hall or the surprisingly conventional gallery spaces. However, a high attendance doesnt, of course, guarantee engagement with the art on all levels. This is another issue we are grappling with at the moment. For instance, it also doesnt allow the visitor in search of a quiet, contemplative moment, to find this; the architecture of the galleries allows for it, but the people dont. So, to refer back to the topic of creating identity, I thought Id share a few thoughts about what I think the identity of an art institution is. An identity is the DNA of an institution; its an essence thats manifested in many different ways. Its not a vision. Its what you know you want to achieve the vision is to get as many people as possible to engage with it. In my mind, what defines the identity of an art institution is a belief in the rightness of encouraging peoples engagement with art and also, just as importantly, the integrity and content of the program. Our concentration has been on the display of the collections, new ways of viewing histories, and we will continue to do this with a completely new re-hang in 2006. It is also about making an intelligent, incisive, and diverse exhibition program. To that end, we have had a series of remarkable Turbine Hall commissions which began with Louise Bourgeois, followed by Juan Muoz, Anish Kapoor, Olafur Eliasson, and now a fantastic installation by Bruce Nauman, a total sound installation. There are very few artists in the world who can take on the challenge of space and volume that the Turbine Hall offers, and the ones with whom weve worked to date have all dealt with the potentially problematic issue of spectacle in extremely interesting and diverse ways. And then, of course, the program of exhibitions since we opened in 2000 has included monographic shows devoted to the work of Donald Judd, Luc Tuymans, Katharina Fritsch, Constantin Brancusi, Sigmar Polke, Giorgio Morandi, Max Beckmann, Andy Warhol, Barnett Newman, Henri Matisse, Pablo Picasso, Edward Hopper. Of the non-monographic exhibitions, Cruel and Tender was the first ever Tate exhibition devoted to the art of photography in the twentieth century [Tate Modern lags far behind other international institutions in this respect!]. Another exhibition entitled Common Wealth, based loosely on game theory, included the work of Jennifer Allora, Guillermo Calzadilla, Carsten Hller, Gabriel Orozco, and Thomas Hirschhorn, with a brilliant installation piece called Hotel Democracy. I want to raise another issue. In the post-Thatcher years theres been an increasing democratization in design Tate Modern couldnt have happened even ten years ago. The culture of interest in Britain for modern and contemporary art has changed in a way that I dont think is paralleled in the United States or elsewhere in the world. What was available for few is now available for many, which has given rise to the phenomenon of Ikea or that of H & M, those high-street design-based stores where everyone can acquire an instant lifestyle I saw a commercial yesterday on Miami TV which had a real-estate company promoting its open-day event in an art gallery, as a sort of lifestyle endorsement, amazing So, now with much greater democratization implied in an association with modern and contemporary art, there is therefore a necessity to build a social apparatus into museum design. In yesterdays panel Kathy Halbreich described the new Walker Art Center which is opening next April. She emphasized the museums role being that of a social system. The new Walker is designed by the same architects as those for Tate Modern: Herzog & de Meuron. For the Walker, they have devised a myriad number of types of social spaces to accommodate either four or four hundred people. Not just intended to disrupt the White Cube, but also like Tate Modern to establish a conscious way to blend the energy of the city and that of the museum through social function, creating a kind of permeability between the two. But, there is of course a distinction between the environment of a city of eleven million people and the population of the Twin Cities. In these radically different contexts, the meaning and impact of social spaces have similarly different resonances. I wanted to end with this idea that as Hans Ulrich Obrist said yesterday we can learn the most profound lessons about ourselves, and our institutions, from artists. As an example, I want to mention Olafur Eliassons recent project called The Weather Project in the Turbine Hall which was an amazing installation of three very simple elements: mist, a half-sun made of low sodium bulbs, and a mirrored ceiling. On arrival, at the top of the ramp looking down into the cavernous space of the Turbine Hall, you saw at the end of the building the reflection of a huge sun in its round, which seemed to rise above the roof of the Hall. You moved further down into the Turbine Hall looking up at the reflective ceiling where you could see yourself so far away as a tiny little figure reflected amongst all the other tiny reflected people around you doing exactly the same thing. Part of Olafurs purpose in making this work was to respond to Tates sense of corporate branding. He was very sensitive to both its surface brand enhanced by logos and typeface, as well as the museum staffs

ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle | 147 self-consciousness about marketing the Tate Modern experience. At the same time as undermining it, he was equally concerned to work within it, making deliberate reference to early forms of mass entertainment such as the panorama. The terrific installation by John Baldessari, Juliao Sarmento, and Lawrence Weiner, their piece Drift in the (Miami) Design District (December 2004) ,is a smaller version of a work which is no less relevant to this issue. While Eliasson is engaging in some respects with notions of scale and with the sublime, he is also engaging with the idea of spectacle in an interrogative way. Hes dealing with them not as accessible realities but as ideas. So I wanted to make the point that for any artist with whom we work, who has, by virtue of that association, a complicity with Tate Moderns public agenda, critical possibilities are always possible and crucially important to defining the identity of the museum. I want to end with another of Tate Moderns great icons, an installation work called The End of the Twentieth Century by Joseph Beuys, an artist who constructed his own identity, indivisible with his art, which is an aspiration for any museum but particularly for Tate Modern. Ivo Mesquita: Thank you. Please, I apologize to you ladies but I have to play musical chairs because the computer cannot be moved, its not a polite computer. Our next speaker is Linda Shearer, director of the Contemporary Art Center in Cincinnati and she has a brand-new building.

148 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle Presentation | Linda Shearer The Contemporary Arts Center, Cincinnati: We were asked to discuss what counts most in defining identity architecture, geography, history? The Contemporary Arts Center has a long history that relates to this question. I have the distinct advantage of only having been at the Art Center for five months so I can talk about it and its identity with some real objectivity and did not go through the process that Annie described for the Hammer. The institution, however, did go through exactly that process, which starts with our logo, which resulted after many discussions, focus groups, intense deliberations. But what happened is, the logo, the branding process, and preparing for the new building all were happening in a parallel way, all taking place at roughly the same time, and were certainly part of the discussion history. The Contemporary Arts Center was founded in 1939 as the Modern Art Society and it was founded by three women who wanted to have the Cincinnati Art Museum show modern art. And while they got the approval from the museum Fine, well host your exhibitions, it never became part of the museum itself. And they in fact then got advice from people like Alfred Barr in New York and in 1940 had an exhibition that traveled around the country , including Cincinnati, from the Museum of Modern Arts permanent collection work by Picasso, including Guernica. So here was a group, starting in 1939, that was independent and bold and I think that those are two attributes that have definitely continued to this day. Then, the other defining aspect that, now that I'm in Cincinnati, Im feeling even more acutely is that, nearly fifty years later from its founding, in 1990, was the well-known Robert Mapplethorpe controversy and that became a very defining moment, not just for The Contemporary Arts Center whose name had been changed, at a certain point, from the Modern Art Society to The Contemporary Arts Center, but it became a touchstone moment for the city of Cincinnati. It was divisive, but it was also positive in a certain sense in that issues related to art, to content, to what is acceptable really came out into the open and were discussed with very, very strong feelings. But it also was a touchstone for the cultural wars which we have seen played out, over that period, in a way thats been very discouraging, I think many of us in the United States have seen the loss of the enormous support that many institutions used to get from the National Endowment for the Arts, for instance. So the history obviously plays into your identity. What distinguishes my organization from the Tate and the Hammer is that were non-collecting and, for most museums, the collection is key to the institutional identity of that organization. And so without that collection, we have some freedom, but it is indeed the exhibitions that we put on, the public programs that we do, and our relationship with artists that take the place of the permanence of having your own collection. Before Cincinnati, I was at the Williams College Museum of Art and indeed, just as both Annie described and Sheena, having a historical collection, in relation to a contemporary collection or exhibitions, is enormously helpful and productive because youre exposing people with preferences for traditional art to work that they wouldnt necessarily have any involvement with or be particularly interested in. So we have to come up with strategies that are going to encourage people to come and see work that may not be something they necessarily want to see. Geography: Cincinnati is a conservative, midWestern, urban environment on the Ohio River, adjacent to Kentucky. It is therefore, Im learning, quite southern and it was an important location for the Underground Railroad, and so the geography question is very, very interesting. In terms of the branding process, the catchphrase that the institution developed, Uncommon Ground, captures the essence for the experience at the CAC. That is outside boundaries. The personality that evolved from this process was feisty, scrappy, passionate, engaging, open, fresh, and believable. And these are terms and descriptions that the CAC is always trying to reflect. And this was in 2000. I think at this point we might add some other adjectives to that, such as challenging. In view of this spirit, Zaha Hadid was hired to design this new building. The previous building was in a space over a Walgreens drugstore, so this was a big step for the organization, particularly given its history in the city of Cincinnati. Cincinnati has a population of about two million people. To draw in pedestrian movement from the surrounding areas and create a sense of dynamic public space, the entrance, lobby, and lead-in to the circulation system are organized as an urban carpet. Starting at the corner of Sixth and Walnut, the sidewalk curves slowly upward as it enters the building, rising to become the back wall. As it rises and turns, this urban carpet leads visitors up a suspended mezzanine ramp through the full length of the lobby, which during the day functions as an open, daylit landscaped expanse. So the concept was the idea of the urban carpet and just as Sheena was talking about the inside and the outside, the permeability, how do you get people, how do you break down those barriers, to engage more people to come in and be part of the public experience and the experience of our exhibitions. When viewing the museum at night, the finished product gives you the sense of the urban carpet, the sidewalk rolling right up to the very top of the building, both inside and outside. Its a thrilling building; everyone says Oh God, how can you put any art in it? The reality is, as Ive told many people here, I spent the first eleven years of my professional life working at the Guggenheim Museum. This is a piece of cake, in comparison. We do actually have right angles, we dont have sloped floors, we dont have curves everywhere. I loved working in the Guggenheim but it was particularly hard to show paintings, but sculpture could often work well there. But this is a beautiful building and we are poised in terms of the whole issue of identity, of moving forward. We have experienced a phenomenon that the Tate Modern has not: we have seen a drop in audience. The support that we got was particularly poignant in many

ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle | 149 ways in light of what had happened in 1990 with the Mapplethorpe affair when many people really turned their backs on the institution. So a lot has changed in this short time and I think, it has a lot to do with the Richard Florida phenomenon of a belief on the part of the city and civic leaders that the arts are good for the community, theyre good for the economy, and particularly for a downtown like Cincinnati. So were poised to fulfill the potential of this beautiful building, figure out ways that we can engage people, work with artists; for most of us, artists are the key; they are going to keep us viable and dynamic and ultimately bring other audiences and more audiences in. So I hope everyone will come to Cincinnati to visit this beautiful building if you havent seen it already. Ivo Mesquita: Thank you. Our last speaker is Rosa Martinez who is chief curator of the Istanbul Modern Art Museum and co-director for the Venice Biennale 2005.

150 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle Presentation | Rosa Martinez Today Im going to speak about two major projects I am involved with. They are very different because one of them is a museum and the other is a Biennale. The Istanbul Modern, where I am chief curator, is the first museum of modern and contemporary art in the city of Istanbul, a city with which I have a very strong relationship since I curated the Biennale in 1997. In my professional career, my only contribution to creating or to adding value to the identity of museums or to cities where I have been working has been through curating exhibitions. I am very proud of having been, up till now, an independent curator, a nomadic curator moving from one city to the other. During the conversations these days, we have been speaking a lot about instability and the stability of art institutions. Museums are supposed to be more stable institutions even if sometimes they open and then they disappear because they dont get funds to realize their own program of exhibitions. Biennales have the fame of being more unstable events, because they happen only every two years, within a big parenthesis of emptiness, but Ive been defending the biannual exhibition model, because they are like a feast, a special celebration. They offer a possibility of creating new relations of neighborhood between artists from different social and geo-political backgrounds and they can contribute to creating this critical understanding of the world we are living in today. The Istanbul Modern is a very important step for the city and for Turkeys cultural panorama. Even if the permanent collection is mostly Turkish modern art, the desire is to connect it to the international trends, to place it in the context of international modernity. When I arrived there, many things were already done, for example the logo: its a very simple one, but very clear, the inspiration from the Tate is there so one could say that this is another museum created on a sort of international European model. One must not forget, however, that this museum exists in a city that is really unique in the world and where the geography and the history greatly affect the constitution of the identity of this new institution. Here [slide] you see a view of the Bosphorus. The museum is right behind that mosque. The building with the red and gray colors is one of the industrial warehouses of the harbor of Istanbul and it was used for two international editions of the Istanbul Biennales, in 1995 and in 2003. The building had been then previously used for exhibition purposes. The founder of the museum is the Eczacibasi family so this is a private museum, even if it has a public mission. In the Museum there will be a sculpture garden, there is a space for temporary exhibitions, a cinema, a gallery for photography, and a space for video, all this on the ground floor which is the most contemporary area of the museum. On the floor upstairs, different displays of the permanent collection will be exhibited. Three Turkish curators have been working now for one year to prepare the first exhibition in the museum, which is going to open December 11, 2004. So, just after giving this lecture, I fly back to Istanbul. But what is the reason of this rush? Why this Mediterranean way of working all the time? In this particular case it is because Turkey is about to sign, on December 17, the agreement to become a candidate member of the European Community. So the Prime Minister suggested that this museum should be opened as a symbolical gesture towards the European Community. And we have been rushing like mad and we will have a national opening on the 11th of December and then next year, the international opening will take place with an exhibition I will curate. This museum has only one permanent work installed right now, and its a piece that the artist Monica Bonvicini created for the 8th Biennale in 2003. It was a temporary intervention called Stairway to Hell, and if you go upstairs you will find these glasses that you see here [slide], which have the marks of gunshots. Downstairs, you have these chains, so whatever is the direction you go, you always arrive in hell, never in heaven. What we do have is a great view. I remember when I visited the Tate Modern, that I was thrilled, of course, to see all the artwork that is shown there, but then suddenly I went to that window and I saw the Thames and London and I thought: This is the best painting of all! In Istanbul, we also have an extraordinary view of the Topkapi, Hagia Sophia, and the Blue Mosque that we can see from the terrace of the building. We have this incredible context which is the city of Istanbul. For me it is a great chance to be associated with this very new project of a museum about to be born. When they called me in July to offer me the position of chief curator, I accepted immediately also because they offered me a lot of freedom to keep working in the biennale network. In fact, I was at that moment involved with the preparations of the 1st Moscow Biennale. But two weeks after accepting the deal with Istanbul, who called me? The Venice Biennale Directing this Biennale is a very symbolical and political challenge because both Maria de Coral and myself will be the first women in history to curate it after one hundred and ten years of male directors. We have an expression in Spain which is You have to take the bull by the horns and although facing time and budget constraints, I accepted the challenge. While the Istanbul Modern is being created, the Venice Biennale is an event that has an identity established over the past one hundred years. This [slide] is the logo of the first exhibition in 1895, and you will see, through the different posters and logos Im going to show, how it has changed and how the history of Venice or the identity of the city as a tourist spot or as a historical spot is present at all times in the image of the Biennale, sometimes showing the Palazzo Ducale, sometimes the lion of San Marco. This [slide] logo is especially meaningful because it is the one that was used by the Fascists in 1936, when Hitler came to open the Biennale. So this event has gone through many different phases, from 1968, when the critical movement was saying that the Biennale had to disappear, and was not a good model of exhibition, to 1974 after the renovation and later. In 1980 the logo was designed by Milton Glazer, but my

ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle | 151 favorite one is from 1984, representing this gorgeous hairy lion when Paolo Portughesi was the president. Now we have this red simplified figure that I actually am not too fascinated with, but The new president of the Biennale proposed to Maria de Coral and myself to do two different exhibitions. Maria received the commission to do a more classical one, a more historical one, in the Italian pavilion. And I received the commission to do something more contemporary in the Arsenale, more prospective, looking towards the future which is, in fact, the context in which I have been working in the different biennales I have curated. So when you go to Venice, you will see what will be our two different curatorial approaches. For me, Venice is also the possibility of working in a magical, amazing context. Every time I travel there I think it is a fantasy, it is not a real place, it is like a theatrical place where history has been condensed. The Arsenale, which is my section, is at the beginning very intimidating. When I entered for the first time I was trembling, but then I went through the different spaces and when I went out I said: This is very small, I want to do more, I dont have enough. In this image we can see the Arsenale before the restoration. The Arsenale was used for exhibition purposes for the first time in 1980 during the Biennale of Architecture that was called La strada novissima. It was converted into a big street where different architects, including Rem Koolhaas, did different faades. The whole Arsenale was a corridor with these different faades. It was really like a big statement about post-modernity: how the faade is the kind of a face that you give to the exterior and how you invent it even if inside you have a totally different interior. Then, in 1997, there was the exhibition by Germano Celant where he collaborated with Gae Aulenti who proposed not to make any walls, just to cover the floor with a black carpet, and the different pieces were installed in this open space. So, having this very, very strong history, its really a challenge to do an exhibition there. And then I always like to work site-specific, I mean

152 | ABC | ABMB04 | The Curator's Circle I like very much to interact with the history or the character of a place. For example in Santa Fe, we used the airport in Los Alamos, we did a project in a Native American village. But in the case of Venice, with such a dense history, it was difficult to know what to do. Suddenly it came to mind that for more than twenty years I have been a fan and a lover of the albums designed by Hugo Pratt. Hugo Pratt is a Venetian writer and comic-designer who created a character, Corto Maltese, who is a sailor, a very romantic figure, an adventurer who travels all over the world. Once, a gypsy woman in Andalusia met his mother and she saw, terrified, in Cortos hand that he didnt have the line of destiny. Being a very young child, Corto took a jack-knife and he drew the line of destiny himself. And this will, this strength to create your own destiny, is a common characteristic for many professionals, might they be curators, museum directors, or artists. One of the books of Corto Malteses called Toujours un peu plus loin, in Spanish it is Siempre un poco mas lejos and in English the translation is Always a little Further. This idea of trying to go beyond established limits, to discover new territories of language, of thought, is also a common idea to an admired philosopher, Delouse, and I thought this could be the title for my exhibition. This is what I will try to do: to go a little bit further from the exhibitions that have been done before. I will invite artists that, through their continuous obsession and work, have tried to go beyond the established limits and systems of thought and of aesthetics that we have had till now. This is a goal for art and life and I think it is an encouraging and positive statement.

ABC | Speakers Directory | 159 Art Basel Conversations | A36B | ABMB04

SPEAKERS DIRECTORY | Acconci Vito | 036

Armleder John | 037 Birnbaum Daniel | 081 Bourriaud Nicolas | 072 Botn Paloma | 096 Cardiff Janet | 080 de Corral Maria | 024 Chen Yang Chaos | 049 Creed Martin | 018 Donnelly Trisha | 080 Esche Charles | 068 Flood Richard | 029 Fraser Andrea | 038 de Galbert Antoine | 096 Gillik Liam | 080 Gioni Massimiliano | 069 Halbreich Kathy | 112 Hessel Marieluise | 096 Holzer Jenny | 081 Honegger Gottried | 025 Hou Hanru | 050 Hsu Claire | 051 Huang Yong Ping | 053 Huangsheng Wang | 055 Huber Pierre | 026 Koolhaas Rem | 112 Koons Jeff | 081 Lambert Yvon | 027 Martinez Rosa | 140 Mesquita Ivo Costa | 141 Moura Rodrigo | 097 Neto Ernesto | 081 Noack Ruth | 070 Obrist Hans Ulrich | 056 | 112 Pedrosa Adriano | 097 Philbin Ann | 140 Pi Li | 052 Pistoletto Michelangelo | 028 Riley Terence | 113 Rondeau James | 039 Shearer Linda | 140 Sigg Uli | 054 Tawadros Gilane | 071 Wagstaff Sheena | 141 Yung Ho Chang | 048

160 | ABC | Speakers Directory Art Basel Conversations | A36B | ABMB04 | A35B | Index A-Z A Armleder John | Artist, Caratsch de Pury & Luxembourg, Limmatstrasse 264, CH-8005 Zurich P +41/1-276 80 20, F +41/1-276 80 21, info@DPLZ.com Acconci Vito | Architect, Artist, Acconci Studio, 20 Jay Street #215, Brooklyn, NY 11201 P +1/718-852-6591, F +1/718-624-3178 studio@acconci.com, www.acconci.com B Baldessari John | Artist, Baldessari Studio, 2001 1/2 Main St., US-90405 Santa Monica, CA P +310/399-5402, F +310/399-7825, www.baldessari.org Bauer Ute Meta | Curator, Alte Schnhauser Strasse 35, DE-10119 Berlin www.berlinbiennale.de, www.oca.no, www.documenta.de, www.firststory.net Birnbaum Daniel | Director Portikus, Leinwandhaus, Weckmarkt 17, DE-60311 Frankfurt am Main P +49/69-21 99 87 60, F +49/69-21 99 87 61 info@portikus.de, www.portikus.de Boeri Stefano | Editor in Chief Domus Magazine, Via Gianni Mazzocchi 1/3, IT-20089 Rozzano P +39/02-824721, www.domusweb.it Botn Paloma | Collector, Es Arte Deleitosa S.L.; C.Transversal Tres, ES-8-28223 Madrid P +34/917990885, F +34/913512795 contact@palaisdetokyo.com, www.palaisdetokyo.com Bourriaud Nicolas | Co-director Palais de Tokyo, 13 avenue du Prsident Wilson, FR-75017 Paris P +33/1-47 23 54 01, F +33/1-47 20 15 31, contact@palaisdetokyo.com, www.palaisdetokyo.com Buergel Roger M. | Director documenta 12, Museumsplatz 1, AT-1070 Vienna P +43/1-526 40 64, F +43/1-526 40 84 vienna@documenta.de, www.documenta.de C Cardiff Janet | Artist, Luhring Augustine Gallery, 531 West 24th street, US-10011 New York, NY P +1/212-206-9100, F +1/212-206-9055, www.luhringaugustine.com Chen Chaos | Curator, 9 Dongwei Road, 8-2-1201, P.R.C-100024 Beijing P/F +86/10-65 43 58 59, de Corral Mara | Co-curator Venice Biennale, Balbina Valverde 19, 28002 Madrid P +34/915625712, expoactual@expoactual.com, www.labiennale.org Creed Martin | Artist, Hauser & Wirth Zurich, Limmatstrasse 270, CH-8031 Zurich P +41/44-446 65 23, F +41/44-446 80 55, www.hauserwirth.com D David Catherine | Director Witte de With, Witte de Withstraat 50, NL-3012 BR Rotterdam P +31/10-4110144, F +31/10-4117924, office@wdw.nl, www.wdw.nl Dennison Lisa | Deputy Director and Chief Curator Guggenheim Museums Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, 1071 Fifth Avenue, US-10128 New York, NY P +1/212-423-3680, F +1/212-423-3641, www.Guggenheim.org Donnelly Trisha | Artist, Casey Kaplan, 416 West 14th Street, US-10014 New York, NY P +1/212-645-7335, F +1/212-645-7835, www.caseykaplangallery.com E Eliasson Olafur | Artist, Werkstatt & Bro, Tor 5/Eingang 1, Invalidenstr. 5051, DE-10557 Berlin P +49/30-425 38 48, F +49/30-428 51 479 studio@olafureliasson.net, www.olafureliasson.net Elliott David | Director Mori Art Museum, 6-10-1 Roppongi, Minato-ku, JP-106-6150 Tokyo P +81/3-6406 6102, F +81/3-6406 9352, www.mori.art.museum

ABC | Speakers Directory | 161

Esche Charles | Director Van Abbemuseum, Bilderdijklaan 10 PO Box 235, NL-5600 AE Eindhoven P +31/0-40 238 10 00, F +31/0-40 246 06 80 info@vanabbemuseum.nl, www.vanabbemuseum.nl F Fernandes Joo | Director Museu Serralves, Rua D. Joo de Castro, 210, PT-4150-417 Porto P +351/22-615 65 32, F +351/22-615 65 33 dir.museu@serralves.pt, www.serralves.pt Richard Flood | Deputy Director and Chief Curator of the Walker Art Center 725 Vineland Place, US 55403 Minneapolis, MN info@walkerart.org, www.walkerart.org Fraser Andrea | Artist, Friedrich Petzel Gallery, 535 West 22nd Street, New York, NY 10011, P +1/212-680-9467, F+ 1/212-680-9473, info@petzel.com, www.petzel.com G de Galbert Antoine | Collector, La Maison Rouge Fondation Antoine de Galbert 10 bd de la bastille, FR-75012 Paris P +33/1-40 01 08 81, F +33/1-40 01 08 83; www.lamaisonrouge.org Gillick Liam | Artist, 860 United Nations Plaza #17G, US-10017 New York, NY www.airdeparis.com/liam.htm Gioni Massimiliano | Co-curator 4th Berlin Biennal, Auguststr. 69, DE-10117 Berlin P +49/30-28 44 50 38, F +49/30-28 44 50 39 info@berlinbiennale.de, www.berlinbiennale.de H Hadid Zaha | Zaha Hadid Architects, Studio 9, 10 Bowling Green Lane, UK-EC1R 0BQ London P +44/20-7253 5147, F +44/20-7251 8322 mail@zaha-hadid.com, www.zaha-hadid.com Halbreich Kathy | Director of the Walker Art Center 725 Vineland Place, US-55403 Minneapolis, MN P +1/612-375-7676, F +1/612-375-756 info@walkerart.org, www.walkerart.org Hasegawa Yuko | Director, 21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art, Kanazawa 1-1 Kakinoki-batake, Kanazawa, JP-920-0999 Ishikawa http://www.kanazawa21.jp/en/ Hessel Marieluise | Collector, Center for Curatorial Studies, Bard College PO Box 5000, Annandale-on-Hudson, US-12504-5000 New York, NY P +1/914-758-7598, F +1/914-758-2442, ccs@bard.edu, www.bard.edu Hoffman Erika | Collector, Sammlung Hoffmann, Sophienstrasse 21, DE-10178 Berlin www.sophie-gips.de Hoffmann Jens | Director of Exhibitions Institute of Contemporary Arts The Mall, UK-SW1Y 5AH London P +44/20-7766 1426, F +44/20-7306 0122, www.ica.org Holzer Jenny | Artist, 80 Hewitts Road, Hoosick Falls, US-12090 New York, NY Honegger Gottfried | Artist, Parc Vallombrosa, 6, Avenue Jean-de-Noailles, FR-06400 Cannes Huang Yong Ping | Artist, Gladstone Gallery, 515, West 24th Street, New York, NY-10011 P +1/212-206-9300, F +1/212-206-9301 info@gladstonegallery.com, www.gladstonegallery.com Huber Pierre | Art Dealer, Collector, Collection Pierre Huber, Geneva, Switzerland Art & Public, 35, rue des Bains, CH-1205 Genve P +41/22-781 46 66, F+41/22-781 47 15, www.artpublic.ch

162 | ABC | Speakers Directory Art Basel Conversations | A36B | ABMB04 | A35B | Index A-Z Hsu Claire | Executive Director, Asia Art Archive, 2/F no.8 Wah Koon Building 181-191 Hollywood Road, Sheung Wan, Hong Kong P +852/2815-1112, F +852/2815-0032, info@aaa.org.hk, www.aaa.org.hk Huangsheng Wang | Director Guangdong Museum of Art Er-sha Island, Guangzhou 510105, Guangdong, China P +86/020-87351289, F +86/020-87351085 I J K Knig Kasper | Director Museum Ludwig, Bischofsgartenstr. 1, DE-50667 Cologne P +49/221-221 21125, F +49/221-221 22600 info@museum-ludwig.de, www.museum-ludwig.de Koolhaas Rem | Office for Metropolitan Architects, Heer Bokelweg 149, NL-3032 Rotterdam, P +31/102438200, office@oma.nl, www.oma.nl Koons Jeff | Artist, Jeff Koons Productions, 601 West 29th Street, US-10001 New York, NY P +1/212-226-2894, F +1/212-226-5916 Kvaran Gunnar B. | Director Astrup Fearnley Museum of Modern Art, Dronningens gt. 4, Postboks 1158 Sentrum, NO-0107 Oslo P +47/22-93 60 62, F +47/22-93 60 65, www.af-moma.no L Lentz Wilfried | Director SKOR, Ruysdaelkade 2, NL-1072 AG Amsterdam P +31/20-672 25 25, F +31/20-379 28 09, www.skor.nl Lambert Yvon | Art Dealer, Yvon Lambert Gallery, 108 rue Vielle du Temple, FR-75003 Paris M Martinez Rosa | Co-director of the Venice Biennale 2005 Gsol 3, tico 1, ES-08017 Barcelona P/F +34/932055716, www.rosamartinez.com Mesquita Ivo Costa | Curator, Rua Par 222 # 71, BR-01243-020 So Paulo N Neto Ernesto | Artist, Galeria Fortes Vilaa, Rua Fradique Coutinho 1500, BR-05416-001 So Paulo P +55/11-30 32 70 66, F +55/11-30 97 03 84 galeria@fortesvilaca.com.br, www.fortesvilaca.com.br Noack Ruth | Independent curator and art historian, Documenta 12 Museumsplatz 1, AT-1070 Vienna P +43/1-526 40 64, F +43/1-526 40 84 vienna@documenta.de, www.documenta.de O Obrist Hans Ulrich | Curator Muse d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris, 11 ave. du Prsident Wilson, FR-75116 Paris P +33/1-53-67 40 00, www.mam.paris.fr P Pedrosa Adriano | Curator, Alameda Itu 285/171, BR-01421-000 So Paulo, www.insite05.org Philbin Ann | Director & Curator Armand Hammer Museum of Art and Culture, 10899 Wilshire Blvd, US-90024 Los Angeles, CA P +1/310-443-7032, F +1/310-443-7069, www.hammer.ucla.edu Pistoletto Michelangelo | Artist, Collector, Cittadellarte-Pistoletto Foundation via Serralunga 27, IT-13900 Biella P +39/015-28400, F +39/015-2522540 fondazionepistoletto@cittadellarte.it

ABC | Speakers Directory | 163

Q R Riley Terence | Curator of Architecture, The Museum of Modern Art, 11 West 53 Street, US-10019-5497, New York, NY; www.moma.org Rondeau James | Curator of Contemporary Art, The Art Institute of Chicago, Dep. of Modern and Contemporary Art, 111 South Michigan Av., US-60603-6110 Chicago, IL P +1/312-443 3678, F +1/312-443 0195; www.artic.edu Ruf Beatrix | Director Kunsthalle Zrich, Limmatstrasse 270, CH-8005 Zurich P +41/1-272 15 15, F +41/1-272 18 88, www.kunsthallezurich.ch S Sardenberg Ricardo | Artistic Director CACI, Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim Rua B, 20, Inhotim, Brumadinho, BR-35460-000, MG P/F +55/31-3571 6638, info@caci.org.br Shearer Linda | Alice and Harry Weston Director of Contemporary Art Center of Cincinnati 44 East Sixth Street, US-45202 Cincinnati, OH www.contemporaryartscenter.org Sigg Uli | Collector Advisory Board of China Development Bank, Former Swiss Ambassador for China, North Korea and Mongolia BANFA AG, Schloss, CH-6216 Mauensee P +41/41 921 30 11, F +41/41 921 30 20 Sterling Bruce | Futurist, 3410 Cedar Street, US-78705 Austin, TX Official Blog/Beyond the Beyond, http://blog.wired.com/sterling T Tawadros Gilane | Founding Director of inIVA (Institute of International Visual Arts) 6-8 Standard Place Rivington Street, UK-EC2A 3BE London P + 44/20 - 7729 9616, F + 44/20-7729 9509, info@iniva.org, www.iniva.org U V von Habsburg Francesca | Director Thyssen-Bornemisza Art Contemporary Himmelpfortgasse 13/9, AT-1010 Vienna P +43/1-513-98-56, F +43/1-513-98-56-22, www.tba21.org Vergez Juan | Collector, Laboratorios Phoenix S.A.I.C.F., Humahuaca 4065, AR-C1192acc Buenos Aires Vilardell Mercedes | Collector, Zanglada, 3, ES-07001 Palma de Mallorca W Wagstaff Sheena | Head of Exhibitions and Displays Tate Modern, Bankside, UK-SE1 9TG London P +44/20-7401 5191, F +44/20-7401 5052, www.tate.org.uk Weisman Billie Milam | President Frederick R. Weisman Art Foundation 275 North Carolwood Drive, US-90077 Los Angeles, CA X Y Yung Ho Chang | Principal Architect of Atelier FCJZ, Head and Professor Peking University Graduate Center of Architecture, Jing Chun Yuan No.79 Jia, Peking University, P.R.C.-100871 Beijing P/F +86/10-82622712, fcjz@fcjz.com, www.fcjz.com Z

164 | ABC | Speakers Directory Art Basel Conversations | Index by topics Premiere A36B | Martin Creed | Artist; London, UK ABMB04 | Janet Cardiff | Artist; Berlin, Germany Trisha Donnelly | Artist; Los Angeles, CA, USA Liam Gillick | Artist; London, UK; New York, NY, USA Jenny Holzer | Artist; Hoosick, NY, USA Jeff Koons | Artist; New York, NY, USA Paul Morrissey | Film Director; New York, NY, USA Ernesto Neto | Artist; Rio de Janeiro, Brazil Host | Daniel Birnbaum | Rector of the Stdelschule Art Academy, Director of Portikus; Frankfurt am Main, Germany A35B | Lisa Dennison | Deputy Director/Chief Curator Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum and Guggenheim Museums; New York, USA Olafur Eliasson | Artist; Berlin, Germany Zaha Hadid | Architect; London, England Kasper Knig | Director Ludwig Museum; Cologne, Germany Gunnar B. Kvaran | Director of The Astrup Fearnley Museum of Modern Art; Oslo, Norway Bruce Sterling | Author, Journalist, Futurist; Austin, Texas, USA Host | Hans Ulrich Obrist | Curator Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France Art Collections A36B | Maria de Corral | Art critic and independent Curator, Co-Director 51st Venice Biennale, Member of the Advisory Committee of Telefonica Foundation Collection; Madrid, Spain Gottfried Honegger | Artist, Collector lEspace dArt Concret, and Albers-Honegger Collection; Chateau Mouans-Sartoux, France; Zurich, Switzerland Pierre Huber | Art Dealer, Collector, Collection Pierre Huber; Geneva, Switzerland Yvon Lambert | Art Dealer, Collector, Yvon Lambert Collection; Paris, France; New York City, NY Michelangelo Pistoletto | Artist, Collector, Cittadellarte-Pistoletto Foundation; Biella, Italy Host | Richard Flood | Deputy Director and Chief Curator of the Walker Art Center; Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA ABMB04 | Paloma Botn | Member of the Board and Arts Committee Coordinator, Fundacin Marcelino Botin; Advisor art collection Grupo Santander; Santander/Madrid, Spain Antoine de Galbert | Collector, President and Founder of La Maison Rouge; Paris, FR Hans-Michael Herzog | Director, Daros-Latinamerica AG; Zurich, Switzerland Marieluise Hessel | Private Collector, Founder and Chair, Center of Curatorial Studies, Bard College; New York, NY, USA Ricardo Sardenberg | Centro de Arte Contempornea Inhotim; Belo Horizonte, Brazil Host | Adriano Pedrosa | Curator, Writer, Editor; So Paulo, Brazil A35B | Juan Vergez | Private Collector; Buenos Aires, Argentina Mercedes Vilardell | Private Collector; Palma de Mallorca, Spain Francesca von Habsburg | Chairman Thyssen-Bornemisza Art Contemporary; Vienna, Austria Billie Milam Weisman | Director Frederick R. Weisman Art Foundation; Los Angeles, CA, USA Host | Maria Finders | Curator Art Basel Conversations; Basel, Switzerland Art Basel Conversations | Index by topics

ABC | Speakers Directory | 165

ABMB02 | Harald Falckenberg | Private Collector, Founder of the Sammlung Falckenberg; Hamburg, Germany Katerina Gregos | Independent Curator, former Director Deste Foundation Center for Contemporary Arts; Athens, Greece Eugenio Lpez | Private Collector, President La Coleccin Jumex; Mexico City, Mexico Host | Adriano Pedrosa | Curator, Writer, Editor; So Paulo, Brazil Architecture for Art A36B | Vito Acconci | Architect, Artist; New York City, NY, USA John Armleder | Artist; Geneva, CH, New York City, NY USA Andrea Fraser | Artist; New York City, NY, USA Host | James Rondeau | Frances and Thomas Ditmer Curator of Contemporary Art, Department of Contemporary Art, the Art Institute of Chicago; Chicago, USA ABMB04 | Kathy Halbreich | Director of the Walker Art Center; Minneapolis, MI, USA Rem Koolhaas | Architect, Oma; Rotterdam, The Netherlands Hans Ulrich Obrist | Curator Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France Host | Terence Riley | Philip Johnson Chief Curator of Architecture, MoMA; New York, NY, USA A35B | David Elliott | Director Mori Art Museum; Tokyo, Japan Joo Fernandes | Director of Museu de Serralves; Porto, Portugal Yuko Hasegawa | Chief Curator, 21st Century Museum of Contemporary Art; Kanazawa, Japan Rosa Martinez | Co-director of the Venice Biennale 2005; Barcelona, Spain Host | Stefano Boeri | Architect, Editor in Chief Domus Magazine; Milan, Italy ABMB02 | Maxwell L. Anderson | Former Director of the Whitney Museum of American Art; New York, NY, USA Richard Gluckman | Architect, GMA GluckmanMayner Architects; New York, NY, USA Public/Private A36B | Yung Ho Chang | Principal Architect of Atelier FCJZ, Head and Professor, Peking University Graduate Center of Architecture; Beijing, Peoples Republic of China Chaos Chen | Curator, Founder CHAOSPROJECTS|Visual Thinking; Beijing, Peoples Republic of China Hou Hanru | Curator; Paris, France Claire Hsu | Executive Director, Asia Art Archive; Hong Kong, Peoples Republic of China Pi Li | Art Critic, Curator; Shanghai, Peoples Republic of China Huang Yong Ping | Artist; Paris, France Uli Sigg | Collector, Advisory Board of China Development Bank, Former Swiss Ambassador for China; North Korea and Mongolia Huangsheng Wang | Director Guangdong Museum of Art, Ershadao Island Guangzhou; Guangdong, Peoples Republic of China Guan Yi | Collector; Beijing, Peoples Republic of China Host | Hans Ulrich Obrist | Curator Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France A35B | Erika Hoffman | Private Collector, Founder of Sammlung Hoffman; Berlin, Germany Wilfried Lentz | Director SKOR; Amsterdam, The Netherlands Beatrix Ruf | Director/Curator, Kunsthalle Zrich; Zurich, Switzerland Host | James Rondeau | Frances and Thomas Dittmer Curator, Contemporary Art, The Art Institute of Chicago; Chicago, IL, USA

166 | ABC | Speakers Directory Art Basel Conversations | Index by topics The Curator's Circle A36B | Charles Esche | Director Van Abbemuseum; Eindhoven, NL; Curator Istanbul Biennal, 2005 Massimiliano Gioni | Co-curator 4th Berlin Biennal; Berlin DE; Artistic Director Fondazione Nicola Trussadri; Miliano, IT Ruth Noack | Curator, Documenta 12, independent curator and art historian Gilane Tawadros | Founding Director of inIVA (Institute of International Visual Arts); London, UK Host | Nicolas Bourriaud | Co-director Palais de Tokyo, curator, author; Paris, FR; Co-curator Biennale de Lyon, 2005 ABMB04 | Rosa Martinez | Co-director of the Venice Biennale 2005; Barcelona, Spain Ann Philbin | Director and Curator, Hammer Museum of Art and Culture; Los Angeles, CA, USA Linda Shearer | Alice and Harry Weston Director of the Contemporary Art Center of Cincinnati; Cincinnati, CI, USA Sheena Wagstaff | Chief Curator, Director of Exhibitions and Display, Tate Modern; London, England Host | Ivo Costa Mesquita | Independent Curator; So Paulo, Brazil A35B | John Baldessari | Artist, San Diego; CA, USA Ute Meta Bauer | Freelance Curator; Vienna, Austria Roger M. Buergel | Exhibition Organizer, Author, Director Documenta 12; Vienna, Austria Catherine David | Chief Curator, Witte de With, Center for Contemporary Art; Rotterdam, The Netherlands Host | Jens Hoffmann | Curator, Writer, Director of Exhibitions, Institute of Contemporary Art; London, England The Future of the Museum ABMB02 | Yona Friedman | Architect; France and Hungary Franois Roche | R & Sie. Architects; Paris, France Fernando Romero | President, Laboratorio de la Ciudad de Mxico (LCM); Mexico Host | Hans Ulrich Obrist | Curator Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France Art Lobby | Participants 2004/2003/2002

Art Lobby | Participants | 167

ART LOBBY | Art Lobby is a salon-style contact platform in the Art Unlimited Hall of
Art Basel. It serves as an open and experimental space hosting various forms of activities such as personal encounters with art world personalities and special guests, interviews, featured artists, short presentations, roundtables, opinion talks, and chance meetings. A choice selection of invited guests engaging in ongoing discussion and debate with informed visitors or commentators in passing. The activities of Art Lobby are free and open to all visitors of Art Basel.

Participants at Art Lobby 2004 Albrecht Lothar | Director of L.A. gallery in Frankfurt and Beijing; Germany, China Berg Eddie | Executive Director FACT; Liverpool, England Brderlin Markus | Curator ArchiSKULPTUR Fondation Beyeler; Riehen/Basel, Switzerland Craig Patsy | Editor; London, England Eskildsen Ute | Director of photography at the Wolfgang Museum; Essen, Germany Haye Christian | Founder of The Project Gallery; New York/Los Angeles, USA Herzog Samuel | Art Critic, Journalist; Basel, Switzerland Icelandic Love Corporation, The | Artists; Reykjavik, Iceland Jolles Claudia | Editor kunstbulletin; Zurich, Switzerland Jonsdottir Edda | Director I8 Galleri; Reykjavik, Iceland Lakra, Dr. | Artist; Mexico City, Mexico Manzutto Monica | Director Kurimanzutto; Mexico City, Mexico Marcus John | Film Producer, The Story Department; New York, NY, USA Menz Marguerite | Art Critic; Geneva, Switzerland Nourbakhsch Giti | Director Gallery Nourbakhsch; Berlin, Germany Obrist Hans Ulrich | Curator Muse dArt Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France Pia Francesca | Director Francesca Pia Gallery; Berne, Switzerland Perret Mai-Thu | Artist; Geneva, Switzerland Reyle Anselm | Artist; Berlin, Germany Ruby Andreas | Architecture Critic; Cologne, Germany Schindler Annette | Director of [plug.in], Art and new Media Basel; Basel, Switzerland Schrmann Rudolph | Neutral, Strategic Creative Director, Partner; Zurich, Switzerland Smith Mike | Mike Smith Studio; New York, USA Spiegler Marc | Art World Journalist; Zurich, Switzerland Sterling Bruce | Author, Journalist, Futurist; Austin, Texas, USA Vaney Anne Lena | Curator, Editor; Paris, France Waltener Shane | Editor, Modern Painters Magazine; London, England Participants at Art Lobby 2003 Armleder John | Artist; Geneva, Switzerland; New York, USA Armstrong Matthew | Former Curator UBS Art Collection; New York, USA Bechtler Cristina | Private Collector and Editor; Zurich, Switzerland Bellet Harry | Journalist, Le Monde; Paris, France Bonami Francesco | Manilow Sen. Curator, the Chicago Museum of Contemporary Art; Chicago, USA Brgi Bernhard Mendes | Director Kunstmuseum Basel; Basel, Switzerland Cesar Claudio | Founder/Chairman Cesar Foundation for the Visual Arts; USA Elgiz Can & Sevda | Private Collectors, Founders of 4L Contemporary Art Museum; Istanbul, Turkey

168 | Art Lobby | Participants Art Lobby | Participants 2004/2003/2002 Faustino Didier Fiuza | Architect; Paris, France Frances Fernando | Director Fundacin Coca Cola; Spain Glaus Bruno | Co-Author Kunstrecht; Zurich, Switzerland Gregos Katerina | Curator and Art Critic; Athens, Greece Gilbert & George | Artists; London, England Gschwind Rudolf | Director Cesar Foundation for the Visual Arts; Switzerland Herzog Jacques | Architect; Basel, Switzerland Herzog Samuel | Journalist, NZZ; Basel, Switzerland Jetzer Gianni | Curator, Kunsthalle St. Gallen; St. Gallen, Switzerland Joachimides Christos | Curator OUTLOOK, Cultural Olympiad Athens; Athens, Greece Keller Eva | Curator Daros Collection; Zurich, Switzerland Knsel Pius | Director Pro Helvetia; Zurich, Switzerland Knig Kasper | Director Museum Ludwig; Cologne, Germany Leutenegger Zilla | Artist; Basel, Switzerland Marketou Jenny | Artist; Athens, Greece Moisdon-Trembley Stphanie | Free Lance Curator; Paris, France Mosca Barbara | British Council, Swiss Chapter; Berne, Switzerland Nicol Michelle | Curator, Co-Founder Glamour Engineering; Zurich, Switzerland Obrist Hans Ulrich | Curator Muse dart Moderne de la Ville de Paris; Paris, France Richner Rosemarie | Foundation Nestl pour lart; Montreux, Switzerland Rosenthaler Lukas | Director Cesar Foundation for the Visual Arts; Switzerland Schwander Martin | Curator Bloise Collection; Basel, Switzerland Steiger Rolf | Director Cesar Foundation for the Visual Arts; Switzerland Studer Peter | Co-Author Kunstrecht; Zurich, Switzerland Szeemann Harald | Art Historian and Curator; Tegna, Switzerland Ursprung Philip | Art Historian; Zurich, Switzerland Vitali Christoph | Director Fondation Beyeler; Riehen/Basel, Switzerland Volz Jochen | Curator Portikus; Frankfurt, Germany Participants at Art Lobby 2002 Arnold Skip | Artist; Los Angeles, USA Beyeler Ernst | Galerist, Museum Founder; Basel, Switzerland Bousteau Fabrice | Editor in Chief Beaux Arts Magazine; Paris, France Casapietra Tiziana | Director Attese Onlus; Milan, Italy Costantina Roberto | Director Attese Onlus; Milan, Italy Delvoye Wim | Artist; Belgium Esche Charles | Director of the Rooseum Center for Contemporary Art; Malm, Sweden Frei Georg | Art Dealer; Zurich, Switzerland Herzog Ruth & Peter | Private Collectors; Basel, Switzerland Huber Pierre | Art Dealer; Geneva, Switzerland Jankovski Christian | Artist; Berlin, Germany Koons Jeff | Artist; New York, USA Lamunire Simon | Curator, Director of Version, Professor ECAL; Geneva, Switzerland Pons Alfonso | Private Collector; Venezuela Rondeau James | Associate Curator of Contemporary Art, The Art Institute of Chicago; Chicago, USA Rubell Don + Mera | Private Collectors; Miami Beach, USA Ruyter Lisa | Artist; USA Sigg Ueli | Private Collector; Zurich, Switzerland Stone Howard + Donna | Private Collectors; USA Stooss Toni | Art Expert and former Director of the Museum of Fine Arts; Berne, Switzerland