Question from reader ---"Whats a full penetration weld?

And whats the welding symbol to use for a full penetration weldment?"Thanks. Answer----This is a pretty common question and there is no way to answer it without some pictures. Hopefully this page will shed some light on the subject. A full or complete penetration weld can be a really thick weld that has been beveled and then penetrated by being filled with multiple weld passes, or it could be a sheet metal joint that is .020" thick and is penetrated without any need for a v groove bevel. The weld symbols vary according to the type of joint. Here is an example: lets use the example of a .120" butt joint. This could be a full penetration weld without any bevel. The weld symbol for a full penetration weld could look something like this.

In this example a 1/8" gap is called for. It is full penetration because no depth of penetration is called for. Thats the rule. If no depth of penetration is called out, it is assumed that it is to be a full penetration weld.

Another example of a full penetration weld is this:

The weld symbol depicts a single bevel v groove weld that is full penetration. Again because no depth of penetration is called out, it is assumed that it is for full penetration. One last picture that might helphere are some other groove weld symbols that are used to depict full penetration welds.

Butt welds:
Full penetration butt welds are formed when the parts are connected together within the thickness of the parent metal. For thin parts, it is possible to achieve full penetration of the weld. For thicker parts, edge preparation may have to be done to achieve the welding. There are nine different types of butt joints: square, single V, double V, single U, double U, single J, double J, single bevel and double bevel. They are shown in Fig. 3.13 In order to qualify for a full penetration weld; there are certain conditions to be satisfied while making the welds. Welds are also classified according to their position into flat, horizontal, vertical and overhead. Flat welds are the most economical to make while overhead welds are the most difficult and expensive.

Fig. 3.13 Different types of butt welds

The main use of butt welds is to connect structural members, which are in the same plane. A few of the many different butt welds are shown in Fig. 3.16.There are many variations of butt welds and each is classified according to its particular shape. Each type of butt weld requires a specific edge preparation and is named accordingly. The proper selection of a particular type depends upon: Size of the plate to be joined; welding is by hand or automatic; type of welding equipment, whether both sides are accessible and the position of the weld. Butt welds have high strength, high resistance to impact and cyclic stress. They are most direct joints and introduce least eccentricity in the joint. But their major disadvantages are: high residual stresses, necessity of edge preparation and proper aligning of the members in the field. Therefore, field butt joints are rarely used.

Fig.3.14 Common types of welds

Fig.3.15 Shaping of surface and backup plate

Fig.3.16 Typical connections with butt weld

To minimise weld distortions and residual stresses, the heat input is minimised and hence the welding volume is minimised. This reduction in the volume of weld also
Indian Institute of Technology Madras

reduces cost. Hence for thicker plates, double Butt welds and U welds are generally used. For a butt weld, the root gap, R, is the separation of the pieces being joined and is provided for the electrode to access the base of a joint. The smaller the root gap the greater the angle of the bevel. The depth by which the arc melts into the plate is called the depth of penetration [Fig.3.17 (a)]. Roughly, the penetration is about 1 mm per 100A and in manual welding the current is usually 150 200 A. Therefore, the mating edges of the plates must be cut back if through-thickness continuity is to be established. This groove is filled with the molten metal from the electrode. The first run that is deposited in the bottom of a groove is termed as the root run [Fig.3.176 (c)]. For good penetration, the root faces must be melted. Simultaneously, the weld pool also must be controlled, preferably, by using a backing strip.

Fig.3.17 Butt weld details

3.3.4 Weld symbols

The information concerning type, size, position, welding process etc. of the welds in welded joints is conveyed by standard symbols in drawings. The symbolic representation includes elementary symbols along with a) supplementary symbol, b) a means of showing dimensions, or c) some complementary indications. IS: 813 Scheme of Symbols for Welding gives all the details of weld representation in drawings.

Elementary symbols represent the various categories of the weld and look similar to the shape of the weld to be made. Combination of elementary symbols may also be used, when required. Elementary symbols are shown in Table 3.2.

Table 3.2 Elementary symbols

Supplementary symbols characterise the external surface of the weld and they complete the elementary symbols. Supplementary symbols are shown in Table 3.3. The weld locations are defined by specifying, a) position of the arrow line, b) position of the reference line, and c) the position of the symbol. More details of weld representation may be obtained from IS 813.

Table 3.3. Supplementary symbols

3.3.5 Design of welds

Design of butt welds:
For butt welds the most critical form of loading is tension applied in the transverse direction. It has been observed from tests conducted on tensile coupons containing a full penetration butt weld normal to the applied load that the welded joint had higher strength than the parent metal itself. The yield stress of the weld metal and the parent metal in the HAZ region was found to be much higher than the parent metal. The butt weld is normally designed for direct tension or compression. However, a provision is made to protect it from shear. Design strength value is often taken the same as the parent metal strength. For design purposes, the effective area of the buttwelded connection is taken as the effective length of the weld times the throat size. Effective length of the butt weld is taken as the length of the continuous full size weld. The throat size is specified by the effective throat thickness. For a full penetration butt weld, the throat dimension is usually assumed as the thickness of the thinner part of the connection. Even though a butt weld may be reinforced on both sides to ensure full cross-sectional areas, its effect is neglected while estimating the throat dimensions. Such reinforcements often have a negative effect, producing stress concentration, especially under cyclic loads.
Indian Institute of Technology Madras

Unsealed butt welds of V, U, J and bevel types and incomplete penetration butt welds should not be used for highly stressed joints and joints subjected to dynamic and alternating loads. Intermittent butt welds are used to resist shear only and the effective length should not be less than four times the longitudinal space between the effective length of welds nor more than 16 times the thinner part. They are not to be used in locations subjected to dynamic or alternating stresses. Some modern codes do not allow intermittent welds in bridge structures. For butt welding parts with unequal cross sections, say unequal width, or thickness, the dimensions of the wider or thicker part should be reduced at the butt joint to those of the smaller part. This is applicable in cases where the difference in thickness exceeds 25 % of the thickness of the thinner part or 3.0 mm, whichever is greater. The slope provided at the joint for the thicker part should not be steeper than one in five [Figs.3.20 (a) & (b)]. In instances, where this is not practicable, the weld metal is built up at the junction equal to a thickness which is at least 25 % greater than the thinner part or equal to the dimension of the thicker part [Fig.3.20 (c)]. Where reduction of the wider part is not possible, the ends of the weld shall be returned to ensure full throat thickness. Stresses for butt welds are assumed same as for the parent metal with a thickness equal to the throat thickness (Cl.10.5.7.1). For field welds, the permissible stresses in shear and tension calculated using a partial factor mw of 1.5. (Cl.10.5.7.2)

Fig.3.20 Butt welding of members with (a) & (b) unequal thickness (c) unequal width
bron: http://nptel.iitm.ac.in/courses/IIT-MADRAS/Design_Steel_Structures_I/3_connections/3_welded_and_welding_connections.pdf

Class C Full Penetration Weld

Table of contents
No headers

Product Form Rolled steel plates only. Crack Location At transverse butt weld joining two single plates end to end. Dimensional requirements Plates of equal width and thickness. Manufacturing requirements Misalignment slope <= 1 in 4.
NoteThe significance of flaws is determined with the aid of specialist advice, and by a

fracture mechanics analysis. Select the NDT technique to ensure the detection of such significant flaws. We recommend that you do not use this class in structural work.

Class D Full Penetration Weld

Table of contents
No headers

Product Form Rolled steel plates only. Crack Location At transverse butt weld joining two single plates end to end. Dimensional requirements Longitudinal axes in line. Manufacturing requirements Flat position shop welds, not submerged arc. Grind smooth any undercut.
Note: Shop welds made entirely in the flat position, either manually or by an automatic

process other than submerged arc, have a better reinforcement shape. This statement is from the point of view of fatigue rather than positional, site, or submerged arc welds, such as larger re-entrant angles at the toes.

Class F Full Penetration Weld

Table of contents
No headers

Product Form Rolled steel plates only. Crack Location At transverse butt weld joining two single plates end to end. Dimensional requirements Longitudinal axes in line. Manufacturing requirements

On permanent backing strip. No permanent tack welds within 10 mm of edge. Grind smooth any undercut.
Note: If the backing strip is fillet or tack welded to the plate, the detail class is not

reduced below class F unless permanently tacked within 10 mm of the member edge. In that case, it is class G.

Class F2 Full Penetration Weld

Table of contents
No headers

Product Form Rolled steel plates only. Crack Location At transverse butt weld joining two single plates end to end. Dimensional requirements Longitudinal axes in line. Manufacturing requirements Build up corners to radius >= 0.15W. Corner reinforcement ground flush for 2t. Grind smooth any undercut.
Note: The effect of the stress concentration at the corner of the joint between two

individual plates of different widths in line is included in the classification. To avoid stress concentrations due to abrupt changes of width, taper the wider plate. Bron:
http://wikihelp.autodesk.com/Autodesk_Simulation/enu/2012/Help/0873-Autodesk873/0889-Welding_889/0897-

Full_Pen897/0901-Class_F2901

GROOVE WELDING ELEMENTS GROOVE WELD SIZE The groove weld size is given in two dimensions and like the fillet weld it is placed to the left of the weld symbol. The first size given is THE DEPTH OF GROOVE and is the dimension used to prepare the edge preparation. The depth of groove is measured from the surface of the joint to the bottom of the preparation.

KEY PONT: The depth of groove does not include weld reinforcement or root penetration. The second size given is the ACTUAL WELD SIZE and is enclosed in parentheses to distinguish it from the groove size, or depth of groove. The actual weld size is again measured from the surface of the groove through the bottom of the groove but now includes the expected penetration of the weld. On a square groove only the weld size is given. The weld size does not include face reinforcement or root reinforcement.

KEY POINT: The penetration into the joint shown on the weld size is not measurable by the naked eye but is given to provide information about the expected outcome. ROOT OPENING AND GROOVE ANGLE Two other important elements for preparing and welding the groove are the root opening and the groove angle. The root opening, when used, dimensions the space between the joint to be welded and is placed inside the weld symbol. The groove angle is also placed inside the weld symbol and is given in degrees.

KEY POINT: The groove angle for a V groove is given as the INCLUDED angle so that means the edge bevel or chamfer for each piece is 1/2 of the degrees given. For example; A 45 degree included angle means bevel each member at 22 1/2 degrees. J grooves angles may be detailed elsewhere on the drawing.

The root opening and groove angle are separate elements and may or may not appear together depending on the joint requirements. On some drawings the root opening or groove angle will be covered in a note or specification on the drawing for all similar symbols, and does not appear on the symbol. The Welder must always read all information given on a drawing.

CONTOUR AND FINISHING The same contour symbols that apply to fillet welds may be used with groove welding and are placed above the weld symbol.

BACKING BARS BACK WELDS AND SPACERS As previously mentioned in this section some joint configurations may have a backing bar or spacer for easier welding or may employ the back or backing weld technique. The elements for these are placed on the bottom of the reference line opposite the weld symbol or in the case of the spacer on the reference line.

KEY POINT: If the backing bar is to be removed the symbol will contain an R for remove after welding. Since the back and backing weld symbol look the same you must look for details to see which weld applies.

Spacers may be removed before the second side is welded or they may become part of the joint.

Common supplementary symbols used with groove welds are the melt-thru and backing bar symbols. Both symbols indicate that complete joint penetration is to be made with a singlesided groove weld. In the case of melt-thru, the root is to be reinforced with weld metal on the back side of the joint. The height of the reinforcement, if critical, is indicated to the left of the melt-thru symbol, which is placed across the reference line from the basic weld symbol.

When a backing bar is used to achieve complete joint penetration, its symbol is placed across the reference line from the basic weld symbol. If the bar is to be removed after the weld is complete, an "R" is placed within the backing bar symbol. The backing bar symbol has the same shape as the plug or slot weld symbol, but context should always make the symbol's intention clear.

BUTT JOINTS The square butt joint is used primarily for metals that are 3/16 inch or less in thickness. The joint is reasonably strong, but its use is not recommended when the metals are subject to fatigue or impact loads. Prepa-ration of the joint is simple, since it only requires match-ing the edges of the plates together; however, as with any other joint, it is important that it is fitted together correctly for the entire length of the joint. It is also important that you allow enough root opening for the joint. Figure 3-23 shows an example of this type of joint. When you are welding metals greater than 3/16 inch in thickness, it is often necessary to use a grooved butt joint. The purpose of grooving is to give the joint the required strength. When you are using a grooved joint, it is important that the groove angle is sufficient to allow the electrode into the joint; otherwise, the weld will lack penetration and may crack. However, you also should avoid excess beveling because this wastes both weld metal and time. Depending on the thickness of the base metal, the joint is either single-grooved (grooved on one side only) or double-grooved (grooved on both sides). As a welder, you primarily use the single-V and double-V grooved joints. The single-V butt joint (fig. 3-23, view B) is for use on plates 1/4 inch through 3/4 inch in thickness. Each member should be beveled so the included angle for the joint is approximately 60 degrees for plate and 75 degrees for pipe. Preparation of the joint requires a special beveling machine (or cutting torch), which makes it more costly than a square butt joint. It also requires more filler material than the square joint; how-ever, the joint is stronger than the square butt joint. But, as with the square joint, it is not recommended when subjected to bending at the root of the weld. The double-V butt joint (fig. 3-23, view C) is an excellent joint for all load conditions. Its primary use is on metals thicker than 3/4 inch but can be used on thinner plate where strength is critical. Compared to the single-V joint, preparation time is greater, but you use less filler metal because of the narrower included angle. Because of the heat produced by welding, you should alternate weld deposits, welding first on one side and then on the other side. This practice produces a more symmetrical weld and minimizes warpage.

Remember, to produce good quality welds using the groove joint, you should ensure the fit-up is consistent for the entire length of the joint, use the correct groove angle, use the correct root opening, and use the correct root face for the joint. When you follow these principles, you produce better welds every time. Other standard grooved butt joint designs include the bevel groove, Jgroove, and U-groove, as shown in figure 3-24.

Types
Butt joint geometries

There are many types of butt welds, but all fall within one of these categories: single welded butt joints, double welded butt joint, and open or closed butt joints. A single welded butt joint is the name for a joint that has only been welded from one side. A double welded butt joint is created when the weld has been welded from both sides. With double welding, the depths of each weld can vary slightly. A closed weld is a type of joint in which the two pieces that will be joined are touching during the welding process. An open weld is the joint type where the two pieces have a small gap in between them during welding.

Workpiece thickness limits per joint type[citation needed] Joint type Thickness Square joint Up to 14 in (0.64 cm) 3 3 in (0.480.95 cm) Single-bevel joint 16 8 Double-bevel joint Over 38 in (0.95 cm) Single-V joint Double-V joint Single-J joint Double-J joint Single-U joint Up to 34 in (1.9 cm) Over 34 in (1.9 cm) 1 3 in (1.31.9 cm) 2 4 Over 34 in (1.9 cm)

Up to 34 in (1.9 cm) Double-U joint Over 34 in (1.9 cm) Flange (edge of corner) Sheet metals less than 12 gauge Flare groove All thickness Bron: http://medlibrary.org/medwiki/Welding_joints