Reese 11cr2294 Doc104

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104
Filed 02/07/12 Page 1 of 24
1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Proceedings recorded by machine shorthand and transcript produced by Computer-Aided Transcription.) Vanessa I. Alyce, RPR Federal Official Court Reporter NM CCR #259 Appearances of Counsel: For the United States: Assistant United States Attorneys Nathan Lichvarcik, Esq. Michael Nammar, Esq. For the Defendant: Court-appointed Counsel Jess R. Lilley, Esq. Transcript of Proceedings before THE HONORABLE ROBERT C. BRACK, United States District Judge, held in the city of Las Cruces, Doa Ana County, New Mexico, commencing on Friday, September 23, 2011, at 9:18 A.M. and concluding at 10:02 A.M. HEARING ON APPEAL OF DETENTION RICK REESE, Defendant. UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff, vs. ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO
NO: CR 11-2294 RB
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 100 N. Church Street, Las Cruces, NM (575) 528-1430
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2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Reese. (In Open Court at 9:18 A.M.) THE COURT: United States of America versus Rick
Mr. Reese is present this morning, along with Mr. Lichvarcik and Mr. Nammar on behalf of the We're here pursuant to the defendant's appeal
Mr. Lilley. government.
from Judge Wormuth's order of detention. Mr. Lilley, I've read your appeal, Document 45, as well as the government's response thereto. I've looked
over the minutes from the hearing in front of Judge Wormuth, reviewed again the Indictment and the memos from Pretrial and the Pretrial Services Report. I was given, yesterday
afternoon, a DVD that, given my other trial schedule, I have -- I will confess I've not seen it. was prepared for me by the government. haven't had time. So I'll hear you. Judge, I'm not going to sit here and And I know that
I haven't seen it;
MR. LILLEY: rehash everything.
Obviously, the court is up to speed on
what the issues are. I first want to address flight. And what it
comes down to, Judge, is if this court were to release Mr. Reese, would he leave his entire family and 30 years of what he's taken to build that has been seized by government and take off? And go where? We would submit that that's --
when you think about it that that's not something that is a reasonable belief.
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3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Judge. Now, what the DVDs show you is -- essentially the DVDs are of statements -- really, the statements that the So with all that I've put forth in my -- and all the connections he has to the community, Judge, and all the continued support he has in the community that to say he was going to leave his family -- and really everything he owns has been seized for 30 years that he's built in the Deming area. And for him to just leave, it's not reasonable and,
therefore, flight has not been met by a preponderance of the evidence. THE COURT: And Counsel, I'm -- I wasn't clear,
in Mr. Rick Reese's case, why Judge Wormuth believed that he was a flight risk, other than proximity to the border and associations with people on the south side of the border. You know that I've heard another case related to this, his son's, the other day. And he was accused of --
there was a suggestion that he had sought out a Mexican passport. That gave me pause. I don't have that sort of trigger on the question of -- if you'll forgive me for using that metaphor, I don't have that trigger here on flight risk. Danger to the
community is where my focus is this morning, so I'd like for you to -MR. LILLEY: And that's what I'd like to address,
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4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 government has set forth in their original memorandum and again in their reply to my appeal. Those are the statements
made in the July 29th undercover recording. What I -- what those -- what I would agree is those statements do refer to -- Mexico comes up, and selling rounds, and rounds being in Mexico. What does not come up,
Judge, in any of these things that they have cited, any of these quotes they have cited and in those audio/videos is that this informant is saying he's with the cartel. Quote -- here's what you have -- and I know -obviously, I submit and I agree and I acknowledge that there is talk on those -- those quotes seem to be accurate. there's talk about things going into Mexico. And
But I think
when you look at danger, dangerousness is a huge issue, if Mr. Reese knows or these quotes tend to indicate "I'm selling to a cartel member. This cartel member is taking
them to go to Mexico to do bad things." Here's, quote, what they didn't quote you surrounding those quotes that -- on July 29th. The person who is, I guess, the cooperating source says he's going to use the ammunition to, quote, protect himself. When they're talking about that, that's
when the quote came up with Mr. Reese that talks about "yes, ammunition shooting crooked federales." "Crooked federales." I don't know if that's the
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5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cartel -- I mean, that doesn't mix. That means this
individual who is purchasing this is talking about using it himself to protect himself. And then Mr. Reese making a
mention about "yes, maybe all the ammunition can shoot those crooked federales." That doesn't -- that doesn't point to
him selling to a cartel member who is going to go down there and murder people in the drug business. The confidential source, again -THE COURT: Do the federales in Mexico -- do the
crooked ones wear a big "C" on their... MR. LILLEY: THE COURT: MR. LILLEY: No they don't Judge. ...on their shirt? No, they don't, Judge. But they're
insinuating here, in their briefs and in their memorandums, that in these conversations that Mr. Reese directly knows that this is a cartel member. sort of situation. Another quote from the confidential source in those tapes: freedom." Now, that's not typically -- you can take any statement and turn it around however you want, Judge, but that's not typically a statement made by a drug lord or a cartel member, seeking -- they're trying to gain their freedom. Quote, "The only way to use guns is to get That's not -- that's not the
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6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So those are three quotes, Judge, in that -surrounding the other quotes that the government did not point out. Now, is he a danger? If you were to release him I
today, is he a danger to himself or to him -- to others?
submit that that's not met by clear and convincing evidence. Just to -- let's just for argument's sake, obviously, he knows maybe some of the purchase -- or the evidence tends to indicate that maybe some of the stuff that these individuals are buying may end up in Mexico. think that the evidence, at this time what has been presented to court or presented to me, shows that there's a direct link to Mr. Reese and to the cartels. The only other -- it's just not there. cases all the time. So we see I don't
And just because there is maybe
evidence that a crime is committed, it doesn't -- or the government gives enough evidence right now, basically piecemeals the evidence to the court and to me to show that there's some apparent facts here that look questionable, that doesn't necessarily mean that letting this individual out means he's a danger to anybody. There's crimes
committed all the time, not necessary -- that doesn't necessarily mean -- or alleged crimes committed all the time; doesn't necessarily make those people charged dangerous people or if they were released to be [sic]
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7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 dangerous. So do we think he's got any direct contact, any direct dealings, that they've set forth now that shows that he's shipping these drugs [sic] to cartel members? Now, what we do have is we do have some guns that were sold at -- or apparently sold at the place of business in July and August of 2010 that ended up in Mexico. this investigation had not started then, so all that information and the surrounding evidence surrounding those gun sales has to come secondhand through -- through cooperators. Now, the only -- the two things, Judge, that the government, I assume, will point to is a statement that they have quoted a couple of times. They keep quoting some Now,
statement in November of 2010 -- and I pointed this out in my response -- about shooting people with a .50 caliber from a long ways away. Again, that statement is unrecorded and
is not dated, so we assume that that comes from some non-law-enforcement person. Now, just in their response in the affidavit is the only other information that -- to me, that the court could at all hang its hat on as far as dangerousness. And
that's obviously on Agent -- the agent's -- on their reply, Agent Valles' affidavit where he swears that somebody told somebody that they talked to Rick Reese, and Rick Reese knew
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8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about going -- a cartel member in Mexico and going to go eat lunch. That's almost triple hearsay, that statement. Agent Valles didn't hear it. didn't hear it. The person who reported it Some other
Agent Valles didn't hear it.
agent reported it through the chain of command. Does a double or triple hearsay statement form the basis of dangerousness? Judge. We don't believe it does,
And obviously, part of my job is to look at each bit I'm not I'm Would
of evidence and make an argument against that.
asking the court to take everything individually.
talking take everything together and is he a danger? you release him? Obviously, the parents live up in the Kingston/Hillsboro area.
There's not a lot out there.
He
is -- they do have a land line. by an electronic monitor.
He's able to be monitored
There's no reason to believe he's
going to take -- he doesn't have anything. So in sum, Judge, we would submit that they have not met either flight by a preponderance or dangerousness by clear and convincing evidence. THE COURT: Mr. Nammar? MR. NAMMAR: Your Honor, the DVD that we Thank you.
submitted to the court yesterday, what it shows is shocking
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9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. NAMMAR: segment again. and it's disturbing. THE COURT: MR. NAMMAR: segments of it today. It speaks for itself. Except that I didn't see it, so... And we're happy to play some We have it. It's about seven minutes
long, but we could play just several minutes of it, if the court would like to see it. THE COURT: It's your case to make at this point. As you -- well, you don't
My apologies for not seeing it. know.
We were in court until 6:00 last night, so I just
didn't get to see it. MR. NAMMAR: And I'm happy to play it. It
summarizes a lot of the quotes that we put in our detention brief. But it also shows certain other things that you
can't get from just reading the quotes. THE COURT: Go ahead. (DVD playing.) (DVD stopped.) Your Honor, we're going to play that
What this particular segment -- it's very
short -- is in this segment, Rick Reese says to the straw purchaser, after he's negotiated with the confidential informant, "Have your young lady fill out the form." that's very telling to a classic straw purchase. hear it slightly in this clip. (DVD playing.) And
You can
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10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hear it. MR. NAMMAR: (DVD stopped.) Your Honor, this next one you can
It talks about bringing a deuce, a military truck,
filled with ammo to the confidential informant in Mexico. And you'll hear the comment after he says, you know, "I can bring you this whole deuce" that he still wouldn't have enough ammo. (DVD playing.) (DVD stopped.) (Discussion off the record.) In this last one, Your Honor, you'll hear that he talks about forming his own militia and that they'll need to band together and that there will be some sort of rule of law. (DVD playing.) (DVD stopped.) I just want to make one thing clear, Your Honor, we didn't pick defendant's words. And if those words are
ugly, it's the defendant's fault, it's not the government's fault. And second, what you saw there is not puffery. Your Honor, if he were puffing, he wouldn't be looking around the store and then telling the confidential informant in a whisper about sending guns to Mexico. I submit to the
court that what you see in this video is the real Rick
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11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to my dad. Reese, not the Rick Reese that stands before you today and tells you that he's current on his taxes. Third, Your Honor, I just want to point out that his conduct is not limited to July 29, 2011, as the defendant asserts. He's indicted in conspiracies that date He's named in an overt act of
back to July of 2010.
November of 2010 and he's also the owner of New Deal Shooting Sports, which Your Honor knows is a small family-run gun store. And even if he's not present during
every undercover purchase, he certainly knows what's going on in his store when the confidential informant comes in and drops $5,000, time after time. Now, we know he's aware of that because, in one of these particular videos, Track 3, he tells the confidential informant something to the effect of "it's funny that you say that, that you wanted another .50 caliber weapon. It's similar to the other Barrets" meaning the
other .50 calibers -- "you have purchased." And I think it's also telling, Your Honor, what Remington Reese says on this day, on July 29th. When the
confidential informant tells him, "Hey, I want to buy -- my boss wants to buy $24,000 worth of firearms and ammo that I need to take to Mexico." And Remington Reese says, "Yeah, man, just talk I think we can do it."
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12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So to limit Rick Reese's a involvement to one day is simply not accurate. And when you pair this with the statement in the affidavit, which was -- which Rick Reese made on August 8, 2010, to a Customs Border Protection officer who was familiar with this investigation, you're shown a person who knows exactly what's going on south of the border. do we know that? Again, his own words. And how
He says in one of In
those video clips, that Juarez has become a ghost town.
doing so, he tells us that he knows about the war going on south of the border. And despite this, Rick Reese, driven by greed, agreed to sell $24,000 worth of firearms to help fuel that war. The only way that this court can assure the safety of
the community, the community which includes our neighbors in Juarez, is to detain the defendant. You've heard some talk about risk of flight. I
submit to the court that, no matter how high the bond, there is a real risk that the defendant runs. He runs because, as
you have seen, the strength of the evidence against him is overwhelming. He runs because, if he's convicted, he faces a harsh Guideline sentence: count alone. He runs because the world as he knows it has been 78 months on the money laundering
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13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 flipped upside down. His assets have been seized. He's
lost his ability to make a living selling guns. entire family has been detained pending trial.
And his
He also runs because, as you've seen in the Pretrial Report, he has the resources to do so. He runs because he has no reason to stick around and face the consequences of his actions. You've heard a little bit about electronic monitoring, Your Honor. Electronic monitoring doesn't tell
us if the defendant's extorting or tampering with witnesses. It doesn't tell us where he is when he cuts off his ankle bracelet. It doesn't tell us that he's selling firearms to It doesn't tell us if he's
cartel members under the table.
gathering firearms and ammo for a standoff at the 400 acres that he owns in Hillsboro. And it doesn't tell us whether
he's forming a militia that he talks about on this video. The United States requests that Your Honor find, just as Judge Wormuth found, defendant is both a flight risk and danger. THE COURT: MR. LILLEY: Mr. Lilley? Judge, we could probably go back and
forth all day on this, but I just -- it's hard for me to grasp, first, on flight risk, that. that. With regard to dangerousness, Judge, obviously But I've said enough of
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14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the tape showed exactly what the quotes had said. There's
obviously talk about guns and ammunition going to Mexico on those tapes. Now, what I didn't see on those tapes -Now, we talked
and -- any direct talk about cartel members.
about -- there's talk -- I mean, obviously, there's talk about the violence in Mexico. is going to get used up. ammunition. There's talk about ammunition
There's talk a lot about a lot of
There's talk about Juarez is a ghost town now. I mean, but does that establish
And so that's a known fact.
dangerousness, that Mr. Reese knows about that and that Mr. Reese is discussing it with this individual? And even
knowing that -- or this individual intends to take this to Mexico? Now, I think there's a -- I think there's people, obviously, in Mexico who are arming themselves, who are not drug dealers and who are not cartel members. a sad state there. there. I mean that's
And I don't know who is doing what down
But do I think that establishes dangerousness, We don't think so.
Judge, by clear and convincing evidence?
One thing, as far as tampering with witnesses, every -- this isn't -- "every witness" in this case is the confidential informant and undercover agents. Obviously,
that -- they're the witnesses we're dealing with, so I'm not I'm not exactly sure what witnesses -- this is not a case where there's going to be 30 witnesses who are out there
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15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 living in Las Cruces or Deming or the surrounding area that are not law enforcement. I would say 99 percent of the
witnesses in this case are going to be law enforcement or cooperators. So I don't -- tampering with a witness doesn't seem to be -- he doesn't -- first of all, they said he's got the resources to -- to flee. I don't know how many times Everything he has has been He does not own a 400 acre
I've said he has no resources. seized. ranch.
There are no resources.
He's part shareholder of a corporation that owns a
400 acre ranch. Now, his parents have a small tract that -- near that 400 acre ranch. To insinuate that he's going to get a It's set forth in
militia up, I don't want to rehash that. my appeal notice.
There's no reason to believe he's
anti-law enforcement, anti-government or anything of that nature, I guess, other than some insinuation from the statements he made on the video. So I don't think those are
a factor the court should consider, or the court could sufficiently use to establish dangerousness. THE COURT: Mr. Lilley, one of the points you
made this morning is the lack of the word "cartel" in any of these clips I've seen or the quotes that have been set forth for me in the government's response. And certainly, the But
word "cartel" appears many times in the Indictment.
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16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me. whether these guns and this ammunition ever reached -- see, I'm not sure cartel members carry a card that has a "C" on it, you know, either, but that's not an element of this crime: Who, ultimately, got them. The crime is whether he
was making -- he was selling guns, by way of straw purchase, to other people. I mean, that's -- he's a firearms dealer
and he's not supposed to do that. So there's the danger, it occurs -- it seems to So the fact that I didn't hear the "C" word this
morning, that doesn't go to an element of this crime, does it? MR. LILLEY: I don't think it does, Judge. And
that's why I pointed that out because I think what we're looking at here is dangerousness. big difference. And I think there is a
I think there's a huge difference in an
individual selling a gun and saying, "Hey, we're going to use these guns in the drug business." I think that does That puts you into
bring another element of dangerousness. a dangerous situation.
Now, I agree, it's not an element of the crime, that these guns are necessarily crossing the border to go to the cartel. If they're crossing the border illegally to go But I think there's a
to whoever, it's still illegal.
significant difference in the aspect of dangerousness, of whether he's a dangerous person, and if -- whether he's
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17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 releasing -- if he's in direct communication and talking to these cartel members, then I probably wouldn't be here appealing this today because that might be a direct dangerousness. What we have is we don't have that And I think that's important. Let's just
connection to the cartel.
And I think there is a difference.
assume, for argument's sake, there's this gun shop right here and there's people selling guns -- who have never been in trouble their entire life, who are selling guns and maybe knowing those guns might be used illegally somewhere. does that necessarily make them a dangerous person? Well
That
might make that decision to sell that gun -- might have been a stupid decision, might have been an illegal decision in my situation here, but does that necessarily make that person a danger if that person's released? I mean, you look at dangerousness in addition to what you're charged with, but you look at who the person is and what the person has done his entire life. And does that
point to "if I let him out, he's going to be a danger; he's going to hurt somebody; he's go to flee; he's going to join the cartel; he's going to somehow come up with some money and get a bunch of witnesses and start finding witnesses and tampering with witness?" It doesn't seem reasonable to say
that, Judge, in this situation, when you look at his history and you look at the lack of apparent ties to bad people.
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18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Now, if these guns ended up sold to bad people and bad things were done with those guns, none of us like that. But to say he's a danger and we're not going to let
him out because some bad facts happened down the road and there doesn't appear, right now, to be any direct link between him and those bad people, how can we say then we let him out he's going to be a danger? Who is he a danger to? What is he going to do?
So I don't think we can just take
some facts and say here are come quasi-dangerous things, that these guns went down to Mexico and then, therefore, automatically equate -- just forget who this guy has been for 30 years, forget who he is, forget his situation right now and just say he's a danger. Judge. THE COURT: Well, on the other side of that coin, I don't think that's met,
whether the "C" word is mentioned or not, he's involved in a conversation that relates to killing law enforcement people in Mexico. Whether they're crooked or they aren't is hard
to discern, it would seem to me, on a case-by-case basis. And that sounds pretty dangerous to me. Counsel, approach, please. (Bench conference.) It's very early in this process, and so I'm not going to be too harsh in my judgments. But I've read the
Indictment, I know that there are multiple references to the
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19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cartels in the Indictment. And frankly, I would have
thought this morning I would have heard more in terms of what those direct reference might have been. And so I'm
concerned that the series of statements that I saw from the government today in their response are lacking in that sort of substance. And the remarks about -- he uses the "N" word
and he talks about lesbians and he talks about trigger locks. Those things to me seem more sensational, more And I'm -- and I'll
reprehensible than they are criminal. pronounce my decision in a moment. I am going to retain him.
I'm not going to
find -- I'm not clear about flight risk, but I am going to continue to hold him on the basis of danger, but I guess this is all by way of saying to the government, I don't -there's plenty of sensational stuff out there. We don't
have to -- it seems to me we're kind of scraping the barrel when we come up with some comments about trigger locks and lesbians at a bail hearing about cartel members. MR. LICHVARCIK: Judge, the reason we included
some of those quotes is because we thought they didn't -they were totally irrelevant as to the seriousness of the offense and weight of the evidence, but we thought they were very relevant to the history and characteristics of an individual and who a person is. And we think that, frankly,
anyone who for lack of a better word, spews that kind of
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20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 venom, I think that's relevant to the detention factors of history and characteristics. So we did think long and hard before including that, but we thought that it was highly relevant and that it would -- that it's very relevant to detention. We don't
think that's going to be an issue that's relevant at all towards trial, but we thought it was an issue as to detention. And then, as to the cartel quotes, it's true that no one during these conversations says "I'm a cartel member. I'd like for you to sell me guns," but it's implicit in everything that's said when they're ordering up $24,000 worth of weapons, including a .50 caliber weapon that's about 6 feet long that can shoot through a brick wall and take down a helicopter as well. So when these things
are going down to Mexico, I think it's implicit that these are the cartels. Additionally, if this case goes to trial, we anticipate having an officer, a CVP officer, take the stand. It's not going to be triple hearsay anymore. be a direct statement by the defendant. It's going to
And this officer is
going to say "Rick Reese, to me, in front of Terri Reese, said that he had met a cartel leader -- not even a member, a leader -- in Casas Grandes, Mexico, and we can go down and visit him, drink some beer and shoot some guns."
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21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 now? So the use of the word "cartel" is not sensational. It's implicit in the recordings. If there's
any doubt about that, Rick Reese confirms it when he says that he met a cartel leader. And I guess, furthermore, it
could be our cooperator that he's talking about, but we're not going to be nave, either, to think we caught the only person who he was dealing with, but though we don't know who he's referring to, at a minimum, he says "a cartel leader." THE COURT: All right. I appreciate the
clarification, but given the nature of the Indictment, the nature of the offenses, the sensational nature of it, I don't think it necessary to castigate a guy because his speech is offensive or his politics are offensive. not ultimately going to be the issue in this case. That's And I
just know that the -- a lot of these things, the use of the "N" word or the lesbian remark, those things are going to find their way into the press. unnecessary going forward. And I just think that's
So just some grounds rules,
maybe, for how we go forward. MR. LILLEY: Judge, may I say something right
We've got our motions deadline I was going to address.
Our motions deadline is on Monday, and they're just getting a protective order through on discovery, so we don't have any discovery yet. I anticipate at least the parties
agreeing that this should be designated a complex case
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22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 rather than continuing it for trial every four weeks. I can
just file kind of a bare-bones motion to extend motions deadlines indefinitely. That would be the appropriate thing
to do before our deadline on Monday. THE COURT: I think you guys can work that out,
but it wouldn't surprise me if I saw something that asked that the case be designated complex. see it. MR. LILLEY: Thanks. So I'll sign it when I
(Bench conference concluded.) (Discussion off the record.) MR. LILLEY: THE COURT: MR. LILLEY: this to you. (Reading) "I've had less than three weeks to gather information and build a defense for my family and me. Time best spent out of jail with my resources. available to me with my release. fight of our lives. Only Judge, may I real quick? Yes, sir. Mr. Reese would just like me to read
This is literally the
Please allow me -- please allow my best
and last opportunity to clear my wife, sons, and myself of these charges by granting this bond. THE COURT: Rick Reese."
Having heard the presentations this
morning and reviewing those things that I have, as I indicated earlier, I'm going to leave in place Judge
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23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you. (The proceedings concluded at 10:02 A.M.) Wormuth's determinations. And just for purposes of clarification, I find this a particularly dangerous situation, dangerous in terms of the allegations. And I will continue to believe and find But the basis for my
that Mr. Reese is a flight risk.
decision this morning rests significantly on the finding of dangerousness to the community. As is always the case when I make such a determination of no bond, I'm glad to expedite the matter on the calendar any way that we can. And as there are
developments, if there are other developments that relate to my determination this morning, I'm glad to reconsider my decision. MR. LILLEY: THE COURT: MR. NAMMAR: MR. LILLEY: THE COURT: signature, please. MR. NAMMAR: THE COURT: Yes, Your Honor. I'll sign it when I see it. Thank Yes, sir. Anything else this morning? No, Your Honor. No, sir. Mr. Nammar, prepare an order for my
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
C E R T I F I C A T E
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DISTRICT OF NEW MEXICO
I, Vanessa I. Alyce, RPR, NM CCR, and Official Court Reporter for the United States, do HEREBY CERTIFY that I did report in stenographic shorthand to the best of my ability the foregoing pages 1-23 of the proceedings set forth herein, and that the foregoing pages constitute a true transcript of the proceedings had before the said Court held in the city of Las Cruces, Doa Ana County, New Mexico, in the matter therein stated.
In testimony whereof, I have hereunto set my hand on this 7th day of February 2012.
/S/Electronically Filed Vanessa I. Alyce, RPR, NM CCR #259 Federal Official Court Reporter 100 N. Church Street Las Cruces, NM 88001 Phone: (575) 528-1430
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Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

Filed 02/07/12 Page 1 of 24

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

Filed 02/07/12 Page 2 of 24

Mr. Lilley. government.

I haven't seen it;

MR. LILLEY: rehash everything.

Obviously, the court is up to speed on

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 cartel -- I mean, that doesn't mix. That means this

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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today, is he a danger to himself or to him -- to others?

And just because there is maybe

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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Agent Valles didn't hear it.

of evidence and make an argument against that.

asking the court to take everything individually.

There's not a lot out there.

is -- they do have a land line. by an electronic monitor.

He's able to be monitored

There's no reason to believe he's

submitted to the court yesterday, what it shows is shocking

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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My apologies for not seeing it. know.

We were in court until 6:00 last night, so I just

What this particular segment -- it's very

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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It talks about bringing a deuce, a military truck,

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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back to July of 2010.

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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those video clips, that Juarez has become a ghost town.

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13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 flipped upside down. His assets have been seized. He's

cartel members under the table.

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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and -- any direct talk about cartel members.

There's talk a lot about a lot of

And so that's a known fact.

And I don't know who is doing what down

But do I think that establishes dangerousness, We don't think so.

Judge, by clear and convincing evidence?

Case 2:11-cr-02294-RB Document 104

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I've said he has no resources. seized. ranch.

There are no resources.

He's part shareholder of a corporation that owns a